Difference in

Richard Tague · From: Cowden, Illinois, USA

Most know that I am new to psg's. Starting out playing honky-tonk piano, to bass in college to lead and rhythm 6 string over the years. Ultimately back to bass for the last 10 years or so. I have on "loan" a BMI psg from a friend, to see how I get along with it. Well, I'm hooked. However, my intentions are only play this instrument for "me", I have no intentions of playing psg for anything other than for myself...at most playing in my church (but that it is distant maybe). I just don't want it to turn into "work", like, at times, other instruments have become...only because of time restrictions for gigs.

Now that I have established that. My questions is:

Is there a huge difference in, say a Carter Starter psg vs regular Cartwr psg? For my purposes, would a starter E9, with 3pedas and 4 knees, be OK? As a Sadowsky and Lakland bassist, I do know and hear the difference in, say, between boutique basses vs production basses. But I play those instruments as a job. PSG, is for a hobby.

I've been looking a Carter Starters, as well as StageOne economy and Encore guitars. I'm think under $2k with a good pedal, bar, etc.

Comments, concerns, suggestions?

Thanks,
Rich

Edit: Resale isn't a huge concern, if I don't play the strings off it. I still have the 2nd guitar I ever owned. I just don't get rid of instruments (much to my wife's dismay).

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Carter Starter and Carter Pro---no comparison. At all. I don't know that they even share a single part. The C-S serves its purpose but for someone like yourself who knows quality instruments, it may well disappoint. Carter (pro) is a fine guitar.
The BMI is a nice instrument. If it is an option to keep it, it's a good way to go.
Very good reputations on the Stage One and Encore. And just in defense of the Carter Starter it was made to sell at around half the price of those two so quality differences are to be expected.

Richard Tague · From: Cowden, Illinois, USA

Thanks, Jon.

I highly doubt the BMI is an option, as it was a Christmas gift from the owners wife. Also, it was the house steel for Nashville North, a closed down local concert hall...and holds certain memories for the owner.

Alex Cattaneo · From: Quebec, Canada

Richard, the Justice 3x4 is another economical option to consider. Fred Justice ise xtremely helpful and great to deal with. The instrument itself is reliable and is absolutely enough of a guitar to play just about anything you could want to play on an E9th neck. I've used mine for video demos on Youtube, album recordings, all sorts of gigs, and it's been great. If you're curious just send me an email and I'll send you some links to listen to.

Douglas Schuch · From: Valencia, Philippines

Richard, the general consensus of the forum is that Stage Ones are great little guitars, so long as you are happy with the copedent as it is not made to be changed. It can be done, but not easily. The Carter Starter is generally thought to be a good bit inferior to the Stage One. Many people have learned using Carter Starters - if that is all you can afford, well....

The Encore has a pro Zum changer and fully adaptable pull system. It cuts corners in other ways (painted endplates vs. polished alloy, for example). It would make a great guitar that you could keep and play for ever. Often there are Pro guitars for around the same price used that are worth considering if you can afford an Encore - older MSA's, S-10 Carter pro models, etc. At that price point (about $1500) there are lots of options. At $1000, besides the Stage One, not so many.

I see Jon has posted since I started writing, with similar views. I will go ahead and hit submit, though - another more or less confirming viewpoint. BTW, I have no experience with any Carter - just what I've read. I do have experience with the Stage One.
_________________
Bringing steel guitar to the bukid of Negros Oriental!

Ken Campbell · From: Ferndale, Montana

Do a search on carter starter. There are some pretty strong opinions. You should get a feel for the topic pretty quickly.

Kc

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

A Starter is made with a particle board cabinet instead of hard maple.
Every student model out there is designed to be cheaply made, with corners cut. The Starter gave a quality changer but everything else lacked. The pro guitars have better cabinets and better machinery.
There are new "economy" guitars that have quality parts but have processes designed to reduce labor (such as powder coat/paint instead of polish on metal surfaces).
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Richard Tague · From: Cowden, Illinois, USA

Thanks so much for the replies, fellas. I did not know the C-S's were built around a particle board cab. That seals the deal for a StageOne Encore.

Thanks again, guys!

Rich

Doug Earnest · From: Branson, MO USA

Lane, all the Carter Starters I have seen had a solid maple cabinet. Have you disassembled one that was made of particle board or something?

If they had put some decent knee lever stops on the Starter it would have been a pretty good guitar.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I'd only seen the one that a student had. Perhaps there'd been an incompetent repair on one of those iffy stops, because the screw hole did NOT have normal wood for the screw to grip, and it sure looked like particle board.
I wasn't trying to slander the guitar, just reporting what I'd seen.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Jerry Van Hoose · From: Wears Valley, Tennessee

Richard, given your before mentioned price considerations, I would opt for a Stage One or Encore from Doug Earnest. Those guitars have received accolades for their tuning stability, tone & overall quality. If I ever consider purchasing a second guitar, it will be one of those Smile

.

Doug Earnest · From: Branson, MO USA

Lane, I suppose it is possible that they may have used different materials throughout their production run.

Particle board is fine in the right application so long as you use the proper grade.

Lyle Clary · From: Decatur, Illinois, KC9VCB

Richard If you want the most bang for your buck you can't go wrong with a Zum Encore. It has looks, sound, playability. If you ordered a 4x5 with an attachable pad Doug could Fedex Home Delivery to Cowden Illinois for less than $1700.00 I got the Humbucking pickup that Doug offers.
_________________
2006 Zum D10 8x8,1969 ZB Custom D10,
10 3x4 Peavey Nashville 112 Peavey LTD 400 2014 Zum Encore Wood Grain 4x5 Stage One pot pedal

Willie Sims · From: PADUCAH, KY, USA

Don't get in a hurry to buy a steel guitar, there are many good use guitars, some single ten and double ten's for sale for the price you are talking a bout. You might even need a double ten as you learn to play, I know several steel guitar players who started on a single ten and regretted it later.

Willie SIMS

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

there are 'lots' of choices for $1700.

Jim Williams · From: Meridian, Mississippi, USA - Home of Peavey!

I have a BMI S10 that I am having thoughts of selling. PM me if you have any interest. Price would be well within your budget if I decide to sell it. I'll be making a decision very soon so just let me know. It is probably similar to the one you have...this one has an oak formica finish. But as I said in another post, if you have the patience to wait a little while, I would choose the Stage One to be honest, unless you are really concerned about being able to customize it later down the road. If you decide to go the used route, BMI would be a good choice as they are well built, still in business and the parts are reasonable. They are also great folks to deal with.
_________________
GFI SM10 3/4, 1937 Gibson EH-150, 2 - Rondo SX Lap Steels and a Guyatone 6 String C6. Peavey 400 and a Roland 40 Amps. Behringer Reverb Pedal.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=258838
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

i couldn't ever recommend the stage one, as it pigeonholes you into a limited, fixed copedent.
it would have to be replaced as you grow in your steel playing development.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I was going to buy a Stage One but Doug warned me that he'd had some issues setting one up with 'Day' pedals. He told me about the Encore before it was available and I ordered one as soon as I could.

I have #008 and I'm absolutely amazed by this guitar. If I ever have a one-off gig to play (not a 'sit down') then there's no question I'll always take the Encore rather than lug one of my D-10 Emmons.

There is NO compromise between the Encore and the pro Zum aside from cosmetic-only considerations. I've heard that Fred Justice's guitar is also good value but I haven't played one.

I have played a Carter Starter and couldn't in all conscience recommend one. As has been pointed out here, though, they were built 'down' to a price.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
----------------------------------

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

actually, i'm not sure that getting involved with steel guitar in the first place is that great of an idea.

Richard Tague · From: Cowden, Illinois, USA

OK. So, if you guys had $1700-ish, would you suggest, for ME,:

The '76 MSA universal 14 string(listed above)?

The MBI S10(listed above)?

Or a new Encore?

I want something I can "grow with"...yet NOT something that is too overwhelming for a new guy...or something I have to work on. I feel I'm making pretty good strides in learning the 10 I have now...I don't want to have to "re-learn" something, at least until I have a good grasp on the "pedal/knee lever/more than 6 strings/weird tuning," thing. Make sense?

Richard Tague · From: Cowden, Illinois, USA

Les Cargill · From: Oklahoma City, Ok, USA

I just now switched from a Starter to an MSA Classic, and it's a night and day difference.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

First off, the MSA listed above is a 12 string guitar. It is built to have a universal tuning on it. Check into universal tunings, the E9/B6. If I was starting out new today, I would consider a 12 string uni.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Human nature being what it is, everybody is going to recommend the guitar that they play. Just so you know, Iâ€™ve played an MSA guitar since 1979. I think they are some of the finest pedal steel guitars ever made, and I'm far from alone in that opinion.

I played the shown one in my avatar for 25 years before upgrading to another newer MSA.

MSA was the largest steel guitar in the world during the 70s. They made more steels than any other company. Consequently there are hundreds, if not thousands of them of them. They are not rare or scarce. That means used ones are relatively inexpensive. I doubt that you will ever see a better guitar at the price the seller is asking for this one. In my opinion, the one listed is the best bang for the buck.

That one is a later, and better model than the one I used all those years. It has 12 strings, not 14.

The advantage of having 12 strings is that you have a couple options for tunings that not available on a single 10 string model.

First, there is the extended E9, which is the same as the 10 string E9, but with some extra bass strings. These are good for playing rock and roll power chords.

Then there is the E9/B6 universal tuning. This has even more extra bass, and converts to the B6 (C6 a step down) tuning with a knee lever. (This is what I use.)

There are some other options as well, but most players choose one of these 2.

The Zum Encore, and Fred Justice's guitars, are both fine instruments. You can't go wrong with either of them. But I still think youâ€™d be better off with that used MSA.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin

Forum Index > Pedal Steel	Goto page 1, 2 Next	Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic