| Author |
Topic: I think I'm devolving. |
Jim Williams
From:
Meridian, Mississippi, USA - Home of Peavey!
|
Posted 23 Jan 2014 8:35 am |
|
I have been learning the pedal steel for several months now, and had gotten to a point of being pretty satisfied with my progress, both learning some solos, and learning to play backup with some tracks.
Then I watched a (very good and well known) video and right hand technique and palm blocking, and to be honest now I don't seem to be able to get anything out of the guitar but bar noise and missed notes!
I want to make it very clear I'm not saying anything negative about the course, it's just that I have become so obsessed with blocking that it is affecting the rest of my playing.
I also changed strings on my guitar to GHS strings from my local music store, and I think it got even worse. They seem very noisy and sensitive. This could be due to the fact that they are probably only two other pedal steel players in the entire town, and the strings may have been there for a year or more. Anyone know of something good to clean / lube them with that won't dull them?
I started learning non pedal steel prior to the pedal and don't seem to have these problems with that. For one it is six string, secondly I use a smaller stevens type bar that I can easily pick up off the strings if needed. I have a small hand and have problems doing that with the pedal steel bar.
Any suggestions? I'm thinking about ordering a set of Live Strings, but to be honest I think 95% of the problem is my fixation on the blocking at this point.
_________________
GFI SM10 3/4, 1937 Gibson EH-150, 2 - Rondo SX Lap Steels and a Guyatone 6 String C6. Peavey 400 and a Roland 40 Amps. Behringer Reverb Pedal. |
|
|
 |
Jason Lynch
From:
Essex, United Kingdom
|
Posted 23 Jan 2014 8:42 am
|
|
Stop trying .
Seriously. when you follow the course, practice the blocking course. When you play, play like you always do. Eventually, the two will merge together. That's my theory anyhow...! |
|
|
|
Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
|
Posted 23 Jan 2014 9:12 am
|
|
Agreed. I've begun to develop opinions on learning. I think as long as you keep the "proper" technique in the back of your head while you play, eventually it will merge. Pedal steel is such an awkward instrument for beginners that it's a gradual process for your body to get used to the unique hand and body postures involved, especially if your body proportions are different than the teachers giving the lessons.
Pedal steel is a comparatively young instrument. So I like to think about how the early experts probably developed their techniques through experience instead of through lessons. Unless you're pressed for time, I don't see why a beginner today can't have a similar experience.
Finally, isn't it normal to have a temporary setback when you start trying something new and different? |
|
|
|
Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
|
Posted 23 Jan 2014 10:15 am
|
|
Agree on the gist of the post above...and will elaborate.
Technique is a profoundly personal thing...find a way to block that works for you...that is comfortable, intuitive and that makes you play like you were ergonomically built to play. Something "natural" - that works.
There is no gospel out there on music...only guys that perfected techniques that worked for them, and became icons because of it...doesn't mean it is "the way" to do it...it is "their way"...not necessarily "your way". I think its important to explore the ideas and techniques that the icons use...they took a fundamental approach and developed it over 40 years....but if the fundamental is incompatible with your natural inclinations...by all means...move on to another approach.
Personalize everything about the instrument you play until it is part of you.
For me, I started with a natural pick blocking style, started to explore these awkward palm and knuckle blocking techniques, and was much relieved when Joe Wright taught that pick blocking was a-o-k and helped me improve the technique.
A lot of what beginners need is some validation. |
|
|
|
Daniel McKee
From:
Corinth Mississippi
|
Posted 23 Jan 2014 12:50 pm
|
|
| I dont know if it will make them sound any better but every now and then to clean my strings I put some rubbing alcohol on a towel and just wipe them down.I read once that a lot of guitar players do this so I thought I would try it on my steel guitar.If you do this it dont take much rubbing alcohol but it seems to work for cleaning the strings. |
|
|
|
Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
|
Posted 23 Jan 2014 1:07 pm
|
|
I also owe it to Joe Wright for validating pick-blocking when I thought it might be suspect, and now I use it most of the time.
I used to try and palm-block everything, but now I use it selectively.
The message seems to be "whatever works" - the steel's a young instrument, and it'll be a long time before a "right" way emerges - if it ever does. (There's a right way to play the trombone, but that's been going for 500 years.)
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
|
|
|
Don R Brown
From:
Rochester, New York, USA
|
Posted 23 Jan 2014 3:04 pm
|
|
As you go through the various beginner DVDs and YouTube lessons, it does not take long to find something you are told to do in a certain way. It also does not take long to find videos of one or more of the "big names" - doing it the "wrong" way.
I find it is easy to over-think things, with negative results. For me, the one rule which is most important is "have fun". |
|
|
|
chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
|
Posted 23 Jan 2014 5:07 pm
|
|
jim..i started playing in the 70's and probably didn't hear the term 'blocking' until the 80's. it's just something that develops the more you play and realize you've got to stop some strings from ringing occassionally. don't worry about it. later, maybe.
the string noise you hear is probably just because they 'are' new and more trebly and sensitive. they'll settle down in a few days.
with more and more people getting into steel and overscrutinizing everything, everyone is missing the first couple months of just coming to grips with the instrument on your own. |
|
|
|
David Scheidler
From:
Arizona, USA
|
Posted 23 Jan 2014 5:43 pm
|
|
Tom said, "Personalize everything about the instrument you play until it is part of you."
I agree completely and, as a fellow beginner, here's my approach to that concept. When I sit down to practice, I first go through all the drills with changing chord grips, pedal combinations, scales, etcetera. Then I'll work on what few songs I know to perfect the timing, transitions and even throw in a few twists of my own.
Then I'll spend a good amount of time just noodling around, experimenting with different chord arrangements and seeing what I can come up based on things I've heard the psg playing on various tunes. My point is that I'm HAVING FUN during this exercise and I end every practice session on that note (no pun intended). It also encourages me to believe that I will learn to play proficiently over time. |
|
|
|
Ray Anderson
From:
Jenkins, Kentucky USA
|
Posted 23 Jan 2014 9:08 pm
|
|
| Yep , What Dave said . You've quit having fun and getting too serious too fast. Been there, done it. Hone what you've already learned and the rest will follow as your understanding increases. And , sometimes out of the blue.......a light turns on and it starts to work for ya'. At least it was that way for me. Have fun !!!!! Don't sweat the small stuff. |
|
|
|
Bengt Erlandsen
From:
Brekstad, NORWAY
|
Posted 24 Jan 2014 12:01 am
|
|
My advice, S l o w d o w n.
Getting bar noise and missed notes sounds too me as trying play stuff faster than your fingers, wrist can handle. Slowing down lets you focus on doing only the correct muscle moves in order to acheive what you intend to play.
Playing slow and controlled is sometimes harder than playing lots of notes really fast, so dont be surprised if slow seems a little difficult as well.
Perfect practise makes perfect.
B.Erlandsen |
|
|
|
David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
|
Posted 24 Jan 2014 1:55 am
|
|
I have had any number of six-string students who wanted it all, they wanted it all right now, and they wanted me to stop screwing around, stop trying to fool them with the "building block" approach and just tell them the real secret to instant mastery. To which I could only respond,
| Quote: |
| "If I knew that, you think I'd be sitting here try to cram stuff into your solid-bone NUMBSKULL, no I'd be on my yacht in the French Rivera, with exotic gorgeous starlets blowing cocaine up my pooter..." |
Well not really - cocaine makes me jumpy. 
I am pretty unorthodox in goals and idols, Debashish & Duane, not Buddy & Sonny, Miles & Morse not Merle & Buck. But it's important that you learn blocking/muting/whatever with your right hand in addition to what works left-handed. To me it's the same idea as playing electric guitar with a load of gain on - you're not supposed to be trying to block a bunch of noise ex post facto (after it's already started) - you're supposed to be letting out only the notes you want, for as long as you want them.
THE DEFAULT POSITION IS WITH ALL STRINGS FULLY MUTED.
When you want a E note for a quarter note going to an F# eighth note, you just open up a little window for that to peep out of - then close it right back up. Many here will disagree, but if it were me I wouldn't just take my foot off the volume pedal, I'd put it in the closet for a month or six or however long it takes to not "need" it. You need to hear your mistakes. Obviously, skipping strings and/or getting an awkward number of picking strokes due to the demands of the music is sure to be a sticky part. Yup. As are licks that run across four (or more!) strings, maybe ALSO with an odd stroke count and/or skipped strings. Yep, yup. Sure is!
You don't say whether you like playing steel more, or whether you like the idea of being a good steel player more. (And the latter is perfectly valid in my opinion.) I like to practice and I'm allergic to television, so it's easy for me to decide, but I'd say those two do take somewhat different mental approaches. If you want to BE a steel player, I'd say just START learning some songs - even just your own, semi-organized amalgamated sequences of licks would work. Make up a few cool licks, then get them down. Really, really down, so instead of just a vast amorphous totalitarian "pick blocking problem" it's just THIS lick with THESE notes that AREN'T get blocked well enough - yet. Then fix THAT. Then make up another sequence, repeat etc.
You seem to recognize that the "Is it blocked enough? Is it blocked enough? Is it blocked enough?" business is messing up the things that you were getting somewhere on? When I'm on a several-hours-a-day practice scheme, I try to make exercises that work on at least two things at once, but I don't get that time available all the time. It seems to me like the best way to shake off "the pick-blocking dog ate my homework!" bit might be to divide your practice time with a little bit of a framework.
If you've got two hours, I'd warm up for 10 or 15 minutes (try to learn a song/melody, chase some octaves around, whatever) - you're just avoiding charging right into a "day of crappy blocking" disappointment from the gitgo. When I say "or" I don't mean "about" - you want to time this with a clock. Once you're warm, spend 15 minutes on some self-generated blocking exercises. OR 20 minutes...  You know what you want to do/ divided by what you can't do better than anyone. Maybe make up an easy-SOUNDING exercise that devils you when you try to put some speed to it. RECORD THIS IF AT ALL POSSIBLE*. Make up another one that's really, actually, pretty easy - RECORD it. And another one that's the most string-skipping, triplets starting-in-nowheresville dribbling into five notes ascending kind of impossible thing.
Making up your exercises is also something that doesn't get subtracted from real at-the-steel practice. Do it while you're driving (stoplights!), almost falling asleep, waking in the middle of the night, television etc. You can find a way to write down quick notes - I just use the number system: 1-root, 3-third, flat-3, etc. Paper & pencils everywhere.
Last, SUPER-important. Spend the LAST 10 minutes of practice time going back to your blocking exercises. This will set your brain up to "work" on blocking all night. End with an easy, successful one - just be aware that if you "load" your brain prior to sleep, the memories will consolidate while sleeping.
TRUE STORY! - https://cml.music.utexas.edu/assets/pdf/AllenDuke2013.pdf
*(listening back is NOT to come out of your two hours practice time either. The two main GOOD reasons are - it'll point up some noisy things you "can't" hear when you're too busy playing, and: IN TWO MONTHS YOU WILL BE AMAZED AT HOW MUCH BETTER YOU'VE GOTTEN AT ONE SPECIFIC THING, JUST FROM WORKING ON IT!) |
|
|
|
Jeff Metz Jr.
From:
York, Pennsylvania, USA
|
Posted 24 Jan 2014 2:21 am
|
|
This Just made me realize how many beginners there are on the steel guitar.
Boy oh boy, I used to think this instrument was on its way out, but if WE all continue to progress, The world will have a ton of Great players!
Keep it up Jim. We all have our ups and downs. Nature of the beast.
Just play and make it sound good to you.
_________________
Mullen G2 SD10 , Lil Izzy Buffer, Goodrich 120 volume pedal, Boss DD-7, Peterson Strobo flip, Peavey Nashville 112 |
|
|
|
Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
|
Posted 24 Jan 2014 9:58 am
|
|
Jim how does it sound when you play one string at a time? Two strings? If you are sliding the bar up or down using 3 strings some strings will be out of tune as it is hard to get three strings perfectly in tune.
If lower strings buzz you need more bar pressure down, do you pull your bar back towards you when you play say strings 5 and 8?
Larry Behm
971-219-8533
_________________
'70 D10 Black fatback Emmons PP, Hilton VP, BJS bars, Boss GE-7 for Dobro effect, Zoom MS50G, Planet Wave cables, Quilter 202 Toneblock, Telonics 15” speaker.
Phone: 971-219-8533 |
|
|
|
b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
|
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 24 Jan 2014 3:40 pm
|
|
| Get a teacher. A real live teacher. Forget trying to learn with just books and tapes and CD's and YouTube videos. Those are okay once you know what you're doing, but you really need the feedback that only a live person can give you. |
|
|
|
Jim Williams
From:
Meridian, Mississippi, USA - Home of Peavey!
|
Posted 25 Jan 2014 6:13 am
|
|
Thanks to all of you for the thoughtful and in depth suggestions. I plan to re read all of this since there is a load of information to digest. b0b, thanks for your comment...I think you are the first psg player to ever tell me that about the Stevens bar. I'm a lot more comfortable with it, but there are also certain things that it just seems more suitable for to me than a big heavy round bar. I have been devoting more time lately to the non pedal, for a variety of reasons, but I don't give up easily...I will get to reasonable profiency with this beast. 
_________________
GFI SM10 3/4, 1937 Gibson EH-150, 2 - Rondo SX Lap Steels and a Guyatone 6 String C6. Peavey 400 and a Roland 40 Amps. Behringer Reverb Pedal. |
|
|
|
Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
|
Posted 25 Jan 2014 7:03 am
|
|
A lot of people and books will tell you that you MUST do this. You don't have to do anything except learn to play like you play and enjoy the instrument. Remember that everything people tell you and you read are SUGGESTIONS not commands...
I started learning and playing again last year after 30 years ago failing. I am having lots more fun and learning a lot more. I have looked at a lot of videos and used a lot of written material to learn. Some if that material I use everything I sit down at the steel. A lot of it is now stored. You will come to understand what you need to keep and what you need to "woodshed".
Hang in there!
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
|
|
|
Terry Winter
From:
Saskatchewan, Canada
|
Posted 25 Jan 2014 8:40 am
|
|
| Just as I was considering what to post I read Scott's post and he said exactly what I wanted to say. Material I first got was way over my head and now makes sense.....just a lot of time behind the guitar and enjoy this monster! |
|
|
|
