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Topic: The Evolving Pedal Steel Guitar |
Rick Collins
From:
Claremont , CA USA
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Posted 20 Sep 2003 7:38 am |
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What functional improvements and what aesthetic improvements would you like to see next, on the pedal steel guitar?
Functional:
I'd like to have a way to tune the pedals from the top of the guitar using only my fingers. Right now, I must almost stand on my head to locate the proper tuning screw on the end of the guitar and tune it with a hand tool. I could live with adding about two inches to the length of the guitar, so this could be done. This was done with some of the old (raise only) guitars.
Aesthetics:
On some small parts of the guitar a touch of gold plating or polished brass added to the chrome and polished aluminum (since there is so much of this), in good taste, would improve the appearence. Too much of the gold look would not be good.
Rick |
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 20 Sep 2003 8:00 am
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Swappable Pickups, like Sierra and the new MSAs have should be standard.
Pedal rod height adjusters like the new MSA should also be standard. (You can adjust pedal height while sitting.) |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 20 Sep 2003 9:04 am
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I want a switch that changes what my knee levers do. I never need more than 5 in one song, but sometimes it's a different 5!
Ditto with the pedals. Why have 8 or ten pedals, when you never use more than 5 in any song?
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 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax |
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Jack Francis
From:
Queen Creek, Arizona, USA
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Posted 20 Sep 2003 9:35 am
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I'd like a hand crank (Like the old pop goes the weasle toys) that would make me actually play some music.  |
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 20 Sep 2003 1:04 pm
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1. Replacable PU's like Sierra uses.
2. 16 or more hole bellcranks that did not split at the base as many of the 14 hole bellcranks do now.
3. Nylon tuners that are like Excels. IE, the hexagon part is on the INSIDE of the nylon instead of on the outside.
This would permit:
a 5 raise, 5 lower changer.
4. Adjustable nut rollers (up and down) and the adjustment is on the top of the guitar.
5. ZERO and I mean zero cabinet drop, OR cabinet raise. Without using any means of compensation or counterforce assemblies.
6. Infinitely adjustable (up and down) pedal rods and legs.
7. All vertical knee levers moved straight up and down instead of pivoting from one end.
8. Infinitely adjustable vertical levers (up and down).
9. Knee levers that are adjustable forward/backwards AND side to side including angle.
10. The original Sho-Bud type pedals.
11. The original Sho-Bud type knee levers; only make them out of polished aluminum (NOT out of pot metal).
12. Changers that were rigidly supported between each finger.
13. Zero backlash tuning keys. In fact, the PSG manufacturer should make them instead of using tuners modified that were engineered and designed for regular guitar.
14. Tuning keys with a coarse and a vernier adjustment capability.
15. Rock solid pedal stops like Emmons uses. With adjustable return stops only.
16. Rock solid knee lever stops like the original Sierra had. With adjustable return stops only.
17. BCT. (changers with body contact technology, so it sounds as close to an Emmon's P/P as possible)
18. Colored fret boards like Emmons originally used.
19. Chrome and black fret markers, like Emmons had on their '69 models.
20. ALL pedal and knee lever noise, (be it rattles, cracks, squeeks, pops rasping, scraping, etc sounds) totally eliminated from the undercarriage when played in a living room with nothing on.
21. The esthetics of a new Zum.
22. PU switch like on an Emmons. (Large centralab lever type)
23. Excel type changer that does NOT break strings.
24. Uses space age materials which have been engineered and scientifically chosen to be as light as is humanly possible to make it.
25. A 6 pedal, 6 knee lever PSG where ALL 6 pedals pedals AND all 6 knee levers would switch from one neck to the other when the PU Switch was thrown. In addition, the swicthover meachanism must be designed and built with meticulous care so as to be as trouble free and efficient as it is humanly possible to make it.
26. Solid SS 5/16" square crossrods with supports sufficient to have the barest minimim of flex possible.
28. Solid SS pull rods.
29. Removable legs, pedal bar and pedal pull rods engineered to take as short (and easy) a time to install and remove, as is possible to make them.
30. Standard split tuning capability on all strings using the Emmons' allen screw form of splitting.
30. Raise helper strings. And made adjustable from the right end of the guitar.
31. Lower return strings made adjustable from the right end of the guitar.
32. Lifetime warranty on ANY factory defect. The warranty can be passed on to subsequent owners. This would INCLUDE labor and shipping in BOTH directions.
33. The case should support the entire guitar in such a way that damage is not possible putting the guitar in our out. And the guitar must be held in a fixed position when the case is in any position. The same goes for the pedal bar and legs and pull rods.
34. The factory must maintain a complete supply of parts for a minimum of 20 yrs from date of purchase for this guitar. This supply should include ANY part that was used. If improvements were made to any part, the customer seeking to by a replacement part must be given the improved part unless it would require modifications to the guitar.
35. 30 day money back guarantee if unsatisfied for any reason.
yeah right 
carl
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Gary Walker
From:
Morro Bay, CA
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Posted 20 Sep 2003 6:27 pm
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| With the technology out there, we have the ability to pitchshift incoming notes and with isolated pickups on each string, we could eliminate the changer. We could make the pedals and knee levers actuate electronic pots or today's bar code readers to the pitchshifters. We could then have different programs in a computer with various tunings and setups and change them with a flip of a switch. I think Buddy mentioned something to that effect years ago and we have the teckies out there that could come up with the solution. It could eliminate multinecks and maybe a lot of mechanics, no cabinet drop, no string breakage, not to mention the weight reduction. Just a thought, thanks, Gary. |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 20 Sep 2003 6:42 pm
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Carl - That's a great list. I do have a comment about #20.
"when played in a living room with nothing on."
Please tell me you keep all the shades closed when you do this.
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Lee, from South Texas
Down On The Rio Grande
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C Dixon
From:
Duluth, GA USA
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Posted 20 Sep 2003 7:08 pm
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Lee,
Since I am a terrible player, I not only keep the shades closed, I keep the windows and doors sealed shut, because I would be tooo embarrassed to let any one know I was trying to play the world's most beautiful instrument.
carl |
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 20 Sep 2003 7:15 pm
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I want a switch that I can turn on to 1 and play like Buddy or to position 2 and play like a Lloyd ,I would be satisfied with those two positions... 
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Bob Carlson
From:
Surprise AZ.
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Posted 20 Sep 2003 8:38 pm
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Gary....Wouldn't that end up being a pedal steel keyboard?
Bob |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 21 Sep 2003 4:14 am
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D-10 weight 25 lbs or less... IN the case!
All legs and pedal rack fold up into the undercarriage of the guitar, so "no assembly required", just pull them up into snapped position.
Built in tuner between the necks (reading in both Hz and cents)
Removable front mica panel, so you can slide in a panel of a different color to suit your mood... (or your outfit?)
A faster way to change strings.
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Budd Kelley
From:
Baton Rouge, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 21 Sep 2003 4:41 am
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I am printing out Carl's list to take with me when I go shopping for a new one. I will want a discount for everything it doesn't have!
Like Jim, I would like a changable front panel. Even my dishwasher has one! |
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Carl West
From:
La Habra, CA, USA (deceased)
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Posted 21 Sep 2003 5:18 am
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WOW,
Looking at Carl's list was amazing. That ought to kick the prices up to around
$15,000 or $20,000 ????
Carl West
I also play with the door and windows shut. |
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John Fabian
From:
Mesquite, Texas USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 21 Sep 2003 5:33 am
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Gary Walker wrote:
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| With the technology out there, we have the ability to pitchshift incoming notes and with isolated pickups on each string, we could eliminate the changer. We could make the pedals and knee levers actuate electronic pots |
I still have my notes and a working discrete breadboard for one channel of this technology. I built this about 17-18 years ago. The plan was to implement the circuitry in a TI DSP chip. Compensation and pitch correction on the fly were definitely possible. I would say that assignable KL's and pedals would also be implementable with the faster more powerful technology available today.
I abandoned the project because the cost of one of these steels, at that time, would have been too great to realize the economies of scale necessary to bring the costs down (assuming public acceptance of this new "mechanism"). Additionally, UL approval probably would have been necessary because you would have had to plug in to a 120V AC (220-240v) outlet to power the electronics.
Carl's steel built to that long list would probably cost the end user a whole lot more (think in terms of multiples of 5 to 15+ times) than one of the many fine steels currently available from many builders. This assumes that the builder is NOT a hobbyist or dilettante and intends to be profitably in business for a long time.
John Fabian[This message was edited by John Fabian on 21 September 2003 at 06:37 AM.] |
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John McGann
From:
Boston, Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 21 Sep 2003 10:22 am
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The fiction of today will become the fact of tomorrow, and I believe within 20-25 years that much of Carl's thoughtful list will be available. The expense of electronics does decrease with time, and there may be a chip to come along in the near future that will allow a changerless guitar.
OF COURSE every p/p diehard will hate the tone! |
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Winnie Winston
From:
Tawa, Wellington, NZ * R.I.P.
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Posted 21 Sep 2003 6:57 pm
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C. Dixon said:
<13. Zero backlash tuning keys. In fact, the PSG manufacturer should make them instead of using tuners modified that were engineered and designed for regular guitar.>
And Jim Cohen asked for a quicker way to change the strings.
Might I suggest that BOTH of these wishes lie in a *keyless tuner*?
I can get a broken third string off and on (and in tune) on my Kline in about 35-45 seconds.
A good bunch of what C. Dixon asks for is currently available in the Anapeg guitar from Australia. His latest changer has helper springs that are adjustable from outside the guitar, a changer that almost never breaks strings-- because there is little rotary movement at the string, a keyless tuner, effortless pedals, solid stops, etc.
In my opinion it is the best steel made. And it sounds great. BUT... a lot of this comes at the expense of weight. Part of the tone in the density of the wood of the body-- and it is a native Australian hardwood called "gidgee" and it is VERY heavy.
Long ago, someone made a "rock guitar" for Jerry Garcia-- the body was solid granite. Jerry said it had amazing sustain-- just too heavy to hold.
JW |
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Dave Little
From:
Atlanta
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Posted 22 Sep 2003 4:40 am
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Bobby Lee:
Would you prefer to switch your pedals and knees all at once or indivually? Where would you position the switch(s)(user interface), and which type of switch mechanism is preferred-solinoid or all mechanical?
I'm asking because I'm think about this also.[This message was edited by Dave Little on 22 September 2003 at 05:41 AM.] |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 22 Sep 2003 6:04 am
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With violins unchanged in 400 years,pianos 110 years, even the newest of the brass sections the saxophone unchanged 129 years, why does everyone think steel is going to change much from here on out? Steel changed tremendously from 1950 to 1980. in the last 23 years though there havn't been any significant changes at all. Some expermental things, but nothing the pro players have accepted. Friends, we may already be there with the exception of very minor refinements. This is why so many older guitars are bringing so much money these days.
I feel we need to quit worrying about how many raises and lowers a guitar has,how many cents of cabinet drop it might have and start learning how to play it. The guitars aren't the weak link, we are. (This includes me).[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 23 September 2003 at 08:31 AM.] |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 22 Sep 2003 11:17 am
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| a small point: it would be more accurate to say that pianos haven't changed much in 100 years. Piano design changed a great deal in th 19th century. |
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Ron Randall
From:
Dallas, Texas, USA
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Posted 22 Sep 2003 6:50 pm
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The features on the newest MSA to start with.
I think I would prefer strings/neck that do not taper. I have bit of difficulty when trying to keep the bar parallel to the frets but the strings are not perpendicular. I do a double take often. We are talking PSG so slants can't be the reason.
Easily changeable fret markers (like the new MSA).
Be sure all strings have a dark background (fretboard) so you can see the little darlin's. No fair looking at chrome as the background for a steel string that is .015.
Increase the gear ratio a wee bit on the tuners. (more key turns per shaft revolution)
Adjustable front legs, but stay within the range of adjustment of the pedal rods. Two bubble levels for ease of setup.
I don't know about D10's, but, on a SU12 there is plenty of room, on the side opposite the player, for a tuner, a 5x7 chart holder.
I kinda liked the guitars Speedy West had, with the "drape" in the front. Knees and pedal rods and dirty sneakers are not that attractive.
Fun to dream a bit! |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 23 Sep 2003 7:47 am
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| OK, I want a guitar that lights up, brighter the higher you play, different lights light up when pushing different knee levers, Changable colors for what you are wearing, six pound total weight but sand bags to hold it down while pushing knee levers, Built in TV camera with a screen behind you to let everyone see your hands, Twenty raise twenty lowers, built in bar and grill, and and and and so on-----------> |
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John McGann
From:
Boston, Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 23 Sep 2003 7:58 am
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| I had a dream I was playing that very guitar last night, Bobbe, except mine had a foot massager and beautiful twin groupies attached. Let's not mention the amp! |
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Scott Hiestand
From:
MA, U.S.A
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Posted 29 Sep 2003 4:59 am
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I like Bobbe's first answer better (although his second was funnier).
I now have a guitar that will give me all the tone I could ask for (and looks great to boot), what in the world do I need more bells, whistles and conveniences for? I just need to make the most of what I can out of this instrument, and that could take a lifetime (and knowing me and my inherent laziness, it will)!
This is not to be critical of the question - it's a fun idea to play around with. How about a "steel guitar genie" that you could summon up an a moment's notice (maybe by rubbing the top of your pac-a-seat): "Hey buddy, tune this thing up, fix that squeaky 5th pedal and change my 2 and 6 strings to whole lowers. Give 'er a polish too....need to grab a Sam Adams....be back in 5"....
On second thought, that wouldn't be any fun either.... |
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James Quackenbush
From:
Pomona, New York, USA
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Posted 29 Sep 2003 10:10 am
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I'd like to see everything that Carl mentioned also, but in addition to his list I would like to see
1) More companies making a longer scale neck for the sustaining qualities, and harmonics it gives
2) Not only slide in and out pickups, but more pickups that can have a 3 way switch implimented for tonal changes....
3) Last but certainly not least, I would like to see every company offer a MIDI option complete with pickup, interface, and make it so that any midi tone module can be hooked up to it with fast tracking on ALL the notes..
I don't want much, I just want it NOW !!..Jim |
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Chris Schlotzhauer
From:
Colleyville, Tx. USA
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Posted 29 Sep 2003 10:37 am
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I feel we need to quit worrying about how many raises and lowers a guitar has,how many cents of cabinet drop it might have and start learning how to play it. The guitars aren't the weak link, we are. (This includes me).
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Amen |
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