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Topic: Rickenbacher B6 Neck Bow Question |
Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 14 Jan 2014 9:40 am |
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| My early postwar Bakelite Ric B6 exhibits a fairly significant bow in the neck. It measures about 3/16 inches. Is this a common occurrence? Is it something to be concerned about? Is there any remedy? |
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John Dahms
From:
Perkasie, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 14 Jan 2014 3:41 pm
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I don't know of a safe way to straighten out a chunk of thick brittle 80 year old Bakelite.
The scale length would be affected but it should not stop you from compensating unless you rely on your eyes more than your ears. The frets may be inaccurately placed but there a number of steels that I think don't have them placed correctly as well and they don't SOUND like an early Ric.
I noticed at least one of mine is warped but I never give it a thought.
_________________
Time flies like an eagle
Fruit flies like a banana. |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 15 Jan 2014 12:42 pm
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Thanks, John.
Didn't really think there was anything that could be done as a corrective measure on the old Bakelite necks; guess it was kind of a stupid question in retrospect.
Just sort of wanted to know if this was a common problem with these instruments. Mine is the only one I have ever examined closely. Hard to really know with a sample of only one.
Agree that it's what you hear, rather than what you see, that really matters. And like you say, nothing else sounds quite like it.
Jack |
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David Matzenik
From:
Cairns, on the Coral Sea
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Posted 15 Jan 2014 1:48 pm
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| Jack Hanson wrote: |
| guess it was kind of a stupid question in retrospect. Jack |
Jack, it is not a stupid question. It is quite important. I am not an expert, but in ten years of interest in Bakelite Rics I have never seen a reference to a deformed Bakelite neck. There are some people connected with this forum who have studied the composition of Bakelite. I hope they take notice and give us their opinions.
_________________
Don't go in the water after lunch. You'll get a cramp and drown. - Mother. |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 19 Jan 2014 10:37 am
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| David Matzenik wrote: |
| Jack Hanson wrote: |
| guess it was kind of a stupid question in retrospect. Jack |
Jack, it is not a stupid question. It is quite important. I am not an expert, but in ten years of interest in Bakelite Rics I have never seen a reference to a deformed Bakelite neck. There are some people connected with this forum who have studied the composition of Bakelite. I hope they take notice and give us their opinions. |
Thank you for your support, David. It was my original supposition that my situation with neck bow may be the rule, rather than the exception.
I agree that it would be nice to hear from fellow Bakelite Ric owners and whether or not they have encountered a similar condition on their own instrument(s).
Jack |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 19 Jan 2014 12:40 pm
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| it may not affect anything, but it would bother me. |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 21 Jan 2014 9:11 pm
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I don't believe the slight bow will affect anything....
Of course if the neck is snapped off near the body, it can have a major effect..  |
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 22 Jan 2014 7:19 am
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Could you please post some photos of the neck so we can see how bad it appears to be? Thanks.
_________________
Brad’s Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
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Eddie Cunningham
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2014 9:09 am Maybe left out in the Sun ??
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Possibly the guitar was left near the heat or in the Sun causing the bakelite to soften and the string tension pulled causing the bow. Maybe loosen the strings and put the guitar in the Sun with a weight on the bow. It might straighten itself out ?? P.S. I just saw the pics !! Hardly enough bow to cause any problems IMHO !! Not to worry !!
Last edited by Eddie Cunningham on 22 Jan 2014 9:15 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2014 9:11 am
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| Brad Bechtel wrote: |
| Could you please post some photos of the neck so we can see how bad it appears to be? Thanks. |
Okay, I can do that. But, just to serve notice, I'm not a very good steel player, and I'm a worse photographer, so here goes:
The above pic shows my method of measuring, which was to lay a straightedge atop the frets and a 6" rule perpendicular to the straightedge atop the 10th & 11th frets, or just beyond the halfway point, where the gap seems the largest.
The above photo shows the neck bow to be approximately 3/32" to 1/8" -- probably not as bad as I had originally estimated it to be. It actually appears worse than it measures (see bottom photo below).
Here's another view of the 6" rule atop the 10th & 11th frets.
Finally, a shot looking down the bass side of the fretboard from behind the nut:
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 22 Jan 2014 10:05 am
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| you had us scared for nothing. |
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John Dahms
From:
Perkasie, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2014 10:12 am
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That's about what I have seen in my experience.
For the record, My earlier reply was not in any way being critical of your question or concerns I was only expressing that I felt it would not be a deal-breaker that could prevent using the guitar (hell, I've got old National resonators that are more warped than that and I still play them for their sound).
_________________
Time flies like an eagle
Fruit flies like a banana. |
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Gary Meixner
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2014 12:56 pm
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Jack,
To me that amount of bow seems insignificant and wouldn't effect a thing. You might check that the screws holding the neck on are tight or haven't stripped out. I could see where if the one nearest the heal was loose the neck might pull up a bit. I have never taken my B6 Ric apart so I am not sure that this could actually happen - it is just a thought.
Gary |
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David Matzenik
From:
Cairns, on the Coral Sea
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Posted 23 Jan 2014 5:42 am
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Jack, that guitar is well within playable tolerances, but photos can be deceiving. Also, I would not consider that to be a neck-bow in the usual sense. It looks like the neck is straight from the nut to the body. There is something strange going on at that point. My guess is the neck was made like that and the deflection got by quality control. Rickenbacker was not Stradivari, they were just making a plastic guitar.
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Don't go in the water after lunch. You'll get a cramp and drown. - Mother. |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 23 Jan 2014 7:39 am
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| John Dahms wrote: |
That's about what I have seen in my experience.
For the record, My earlier reply was not in any way being critical of your question or concerns I was only expressing that I felt it would not be a deal-breaker that could prevent using the guitar (hell, I've got old National resonators that are more warped than that and I still play them for their sound). |
John,
No offense taken I, assure you. I was more interested in affirming that the condition was a fairly normal occurrence with these instruments.
My old Tricone also has a significant neck bow, and you're entirely correct that the sound produced is by far the most important factor. On that account, both my Tricone and my Ric have that aspect covered. In spades. Nothing else I've played sounds quite like them.
Jack |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 23 Jan 2014 7:59 am
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| Gary Meixner wrote: |
Jack,
To me that amount of bow seems insignificant and wouldn't effect a thing. You might check that the screws holding the neck on are tight or haven't stripped out. I could see where if the one nearest the heal was loose the neck might pull up a bit. I have never taken my B6 Ric apart so I am not sure that this could actually happen - it is just a thought.
Gary |
Gary,
Thanks for that suggestion. The screws are tight, and don't seem to be stripped. The neck appears to be snugged down in the pocked as it should be. Guess I should just quit worrying and keep on playing it. It sure does sound good!
Jack |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 23 Jan 2014 8:19 am
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| David Matzenik wrote: |
| Jack, that guitar is well within playable tolerances, but photos can be deceiving. Also, I would not consider that to be a neck-bow in the usual sense. It looks like the neck is straight from the nut to the body. There is something strange going on at that point. My guess is the neck was made like that and the deflection got by quality control. Rickenbacker was not Stradivari, they were just making a plastic guitar. |
David,
Thanks for your reassurance, and I would agree the instrument is entirely playable. You are correct that the photo deceptively depicts what's really happening. Actually, the bow is most significant between the nut and where the neck joins the body just behind the 10th fret. From that point to the end of the fretboard, the bow is quite marginal.
It's doubtful that when Leo Baekeland first applied heat and pressure to phenol and formaldehyde back in 1907, he would have envisioned that someday in the future people in California would be using it to build electric guitars.
And, it's probably even more doubtful that Adolph Rickenbacker could have envisioned the continuing attraction to these old instruments well into the 21st Century.
Jack |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 23 Jan 2014 9:17 am Yet...............
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| They couldn't wait to give up on the Ric's and alter the pickups and alloy just to sound more like a FENDER? |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 23 Jan 2014 6:04 pm
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I just measured all my prewar Bakelites ...
The distance from the body to the top of the un-slotted bridge is 12/32" ...
The distance from the neck surface to the top of the un-slotted nut is 8/32" ...
There is a 4/32" (1/8") height difference in the integrated (molded ) nut and integrated bridge ... .
Slot depths may exaggerate or lessen this phenomenon of having the strings not being parallel with the neck & body ...
I have bridges that are unspotted ... and others slotted deeply ...
I've seen nuts that have been filed perfectly ... to ones that seemed the owner was looking for gold down there ... |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 24 Jan 2014 3:43 am
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| I guess since it's in Minnesota, we have to wait a few months before the hot sun-sawhorses-cinderblock luthiering, huh? Unless you can find a commercial bakery or pizza joint - that puppy would slide right in! |
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