Starting to learn C6th

Ricky Littleton · From: Steely-Eyed Missile Man from Cocoa Beach, Florida USA

Need advice.

I have removed my "Mooney E9" fromt he back neck and putting the C6th back into service.

My question is, when starting out on C6th, is it best (or does it make a difference at all) to start the learning process with the high "G" as string 1 or go ahead and go for the chromatic "D" first string?

I'm sure this has been hashed to death on here, but thought I'd ask first.

Thanks everyone!

Ricky

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

I would suggest you start with the D instead of the G. The reasons are many.

That D note fills soooo many holes that were always missing in the tuning. And putting it in sequence would be no good, for the same reasons that putting the "chromatic" strings in sequence would not be a good idea on the E9th neck.

The D note can be used beautifully with the 5th and/or 6th pedals all the time. When used with the 5th pedal it provides an all important root note on top. when used with the 6th pedal it provides an all important 13th note. When used with both of them, it provides that "missing" note in the chord made using 5 and 6.

When playing single string rifts it greatly reduces bar movement which aids in fast stacatto type picking.

Finally, that high G note was always too thin and tiny according to a number of players (I am one of them).

After much study, I can only conclude that the D has many advantages over the G. So I would strongly suggest it.

IF you do, I would urge you to have a knee lever that raises the top and middle C notes to a C#. This will regain the top major triad lost on strings 1, 2 and 3; three frets up on strings 2, 3 and 4.

In addition, it becomes a great change to use with the 4th, 5th, 6th and 8th pedals.

And lastly, if you go with the D as the first string, I would urge you to add the following pull to the 8th pedal. IE, raise that D to an Eb. This is a great change, and does not hurt the 8th pedal at all. Plus, it fits perfectly in many musical passages; and adds an all important 7th tone on top when used with pedal 6 (you must use both feet, but it is worth it).

May Jesus bless you in your quests,

carl

Jeff Lampert · From: queens, new york city

The key advantage of the G string is musical. You have extended voicings/extra chord inversions at the top of the tuning. If you have extra knee levers, you can compromise by raising string 3 from C->C# to some of the extended voicings 3 frets up. But it's still not as good as having the G note as the first string. The key advantage of the D note is technical. You have a scale note more readily available and very importantly, you don't need to use two feet on the pedals. That D note is needed in many swing/jazz voicings and is only found by pressing pedal 7 (which raises string 3 from C->D) if you don't have it on the first string. So there you have it, the G gives you a muisical advantabe, the D note a technical advantage. I'd say the ratio of D to G players is approx 2 to 1. But there is no right or wrong answer. Tough choice.

Jeff Lampert · From: queens, new york city

Carl, you beat me to it.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

As far as learning C6th goes, there are a ton of songs that can be played without ever hitting the first string, so I would'nt let this be your dilema.
You can change it as needed to accomodate your learning, then deside for yourself what works best for you later.
I'd reccomend a Jeff Newman course.
While not an absolute beginner course, he has one called "C6th & Swingin'" that is really good.
He uses San Antone Rose to introduce a whole bunch or pedal/lever combos and fret postions.

[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 16 September 2003 at 10:06 AM.]

Doug Seymour · From: Jamestown NY USA (deceased)

Curley Chalker played very well (for most of us who dig C6th) on his own version of this tuning and didn't use either a G nor a D! His top string, on tunings I've seen posted,
was an E. This has intrigued me? Why? Johnny
Cox, where are you? Can you tell us his reasoning behind this?

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I'm sticking with Herby Wallace. If the G on the first string is good enough for him, it's good enough for me. He is an awesome C6th player!
Erv

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Doug,

Johnny Cox knows more than I will ever know about steel guitar, so I will NOT attempt to upstage him. If this post comes across that way, it is totally unintentional.

I will just tell you my opinion only.

Prior to the advent of pedals as Bud Isaaacs brought us, the top string on most steels, be a they single, double, triple or quad neck was an E note. True there were some who used an E13th with a hi G# and some other select few tunings that used something higher than the E, but the overwhelming number of players used an E note as the top string.

In addition, the number of strings had just about settled on 8 as standard. In the case of C6, the most popular tuning was:

E
C
A
G
E
C
A
F

So, when Buddy Emmons had Shot Jackson make him a D-10, it was an innovative move. In the case of E9th it was nescessary because of the two "chromatic" strings which Buddy had added.

While I have NO idea of the official reasoning for adding 2 strings on the C6 neck, I am conjecturing that they simply came along for the ride to keep from having a 10 string and an 8 string neck on the same guitar.

Still assuming, what would Buddy do on that 10 string neck? Well I imagine since BE has always been a part of the bright Nashville sound, he simply added a string on top and one on the bottom of the standard C6 tuning shown above. Again I do not know this to be fact.

Carrying this thesis further, Curley Chalker was NOT part of the Nashville "bright" society. Curley was and will always be the absolute master of chords. He is truly the "chord king". None finer ever has graced the C neck of the PSG. And bass notes are an intregal part of anyone who is labelled a "chord King" IMO.

So assuming still futher, I imagine that when Curley decided to go 10, he opted to put the two additional strings both on the bottom.

Any simililarity of the above to the true facts are purely coincidental since this dude does not have a clue as to why

carl

Doug Seymour · From: Jamestown NY USA (deceased)

E was high enough for a first string for the one ("Master of Touch & Tone") who showed us all the way to C6th, Jerry Byrd. Carl, I met Herby Remington at your first show in Atlanta
and I asked him if he'd always played A6th. His aswer was, "Yes, & if it hadn't been for Jerry Byrd, the world would still be playing A6th!" Chalker's C6th can be changed to an A6th w/a couple of pedals.....don't know that he used it that way?? Similar voicing a
third lower? Looked at Herby's (R not W) A6th
once after I heard him getting some nice voicings on some tunes on SteelRadio.com Changes similar to our C6th ones.

Ken Williams · From: Arkansas

I would tend to agree with Carl's reasons stated above. The D on top fills in the gap between the C and E strings. Makes single string riffs much easier. I think the D string placement is important also. Some of the stuff I find comforable on the E9 neck involves kinda rocking back and forth between the 1st string and other string combinations. Because of the D string being in the same position on the C6, it makes for similar right hand movements. I also raise the D 1/2 tone. Wouldn't want to do without that change, as I use it quite often. But, everyone has their own style and if the G is what fits you best, that's what you should go with.

Ken

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