Li'l Izzy and Volume Pedals

George Kimery · From: Limestone, TN, USA

I have went from a Hilton pedal back to a pot pedal, not once, but twice. I sold both of the Hilton's for the same reason. Using my Lil Izzy and George L cords along with my Evans FET 500 amp, the highs were just through the roof. With the treble all the way off on the amp, still so much treble it could peel wall paper. The sound also sounded thin to me. I have a tone control on my Zum steel, but I don't like the sound of it. I just got rid of the Hilton's to get my treble under control. I tried getting rid of the Lil Izzy and the George L cords. I wasn't happy. I liked the sound of the pot pedal better, so out went the Hilton's just to reduce the treble.

I have a black box with a tone control on it, but the tone control will not work with the low impedence signal put out by the Lil Izzy. I tried regular cords instead of the George L's, but didn't like the sound. The clearity was just not there.

Right now, I am pretty happy, but not totally. I am running guitar > black box > Goodrich 120 w/ dunlop pot > Lil Izzy > RV-3 (#2 slight delay) > amp (using
amp spring reverb, slight amount)

I know the Lil Izzy is supposed to go right after the guitar, but if I do, the highs are out of control with the Evans amp. I can use the tone control on the black box if the Lil Izzy comes after it. For some reason, coming from the black box to the Lil Izzy, then the volume pedal does not work at all. Just silence. I have the Lil Izzy plugged into the output of the volume pedal and it works fine. I can still get the string separation and a cleaner sound with the Izzy, even though it is in a strange position in my chain. I am not getting the full benefit of the Izzy, but certainly enough that I can tell if I take it away.

I don't like the reverb sounds in the RV-3, except #7, and it has delay with it which you can't remove. I have a Wet Reverb on order which I hope will sound better than the RV-3 reverbs. I will still use the RV-3 for delay, if need be.

I would like to experiment with a Telonics pedal, but from what I have heard, although they are light years ahead of any other pedal as far as technology goes, they still sound about the same as a Hilton.

I have a Nashville 112 and I have had a Nashville 1000, a Session 500, a Session 400 LTD, and a Webb.

I am on the verge of ordering a Telonics to experiment with. Tom Bradshaw offers a money back if not happy. I don't think I am going to be happy until I give one a test drive.

This post is of great interest to me, but it hasn't helped me a whole lot on the decision of whether to try the Telonics or not. When I had the HIlton's, I would keep going back and forth from the pot pedal to the Hilton. They both sounded good, but different. The pot just seemed to have more meat on the bone, but not nearly as clear as the Hilton. And I could hear a slight tone change on the pot pedal.

I am very interested if anybody has compared the sound of the HIlton vs. the Telonics? Maybe I should make this question on a separate post.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

George, I use my Izzy after the volume pedal when I play tube. It goes after the guitar into Peavey gear
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Craig Baker · From: Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.

George,
The reason the Freeloader will not function following Li'l Izzy is because the FreeLOADer is a loading device, and the low impedance output of Li'l Izzy is immune to the effects of loading. Similiarly, the pot in a volume pedal must be installed to reach the completely off position, or the signal from Li'l Izzy will "leak" through to the amplifier. Hope this information is helpful.

Best wishes for 2014
Craig Baker 706-485-8792

cmbakerelectronics@gmail.com

C.M. Baker Electronics
P.O. Box 3965
Eatonton, GA 31024

George Kimery · From: Limestone, TN, USA

Craig, thanks for your response, but let me clearify. It was not a Sarno Free Loader that I was talking about. It was the Black Box. If I go straight out of my guitar to the Lil Izzy, like I am supposed to, then the Black Box still works, but NOT the variable Z control on the Black Box. I need the variable Z control to tame the highs on my Evans amp. Now my 112 amp, that is a whole different story. But I prefer the Evans for playing gigs, so I am having to hook things up in an unorthodox manner to tame my highs.

If I plug the Izzy into the input of the 120 pot pedal, then come from the output of the Black Box, I get nothing, just silence. If I plug the Izzy into the output of the volume pedal, then it works fine. I know this is not your recommended place to insert the Izzy, but it still works, just not to the degree that it does when coming direct out of the guitar. But in my special situation trying to tame the highs, this works the best for me. I am very happy with the Black Box and the Izzy and this is the best way that I have found to get the two working together.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Nothing happens when you hook it to the input because the plug on the Izzy (sticking out the end) is the input, the jack on the bottom is the output.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Craig Baker · From: Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.

George,
As Lane pointed out, the Li'l Izzy is a "one-way" device. I have always recommended Li'l Izzy as an excellent buffer to place at the output of a pot pedal. You get the benefits of an expensive active pedal, but without the high price and the need for one more cord to trip over.

The Black Box is an excellent product, but it's my understanding that the variable "Z" again, is a loading control and will have no effect when being driven by a low impedance device.

Best wishes for 2014
Craig Baker 706-485-8792

cmbakerelectronics@gmail.com

C.M. Baker Electronics
P.O. Box 3965
Eatonton, GA 31024

George Kimery · From: Limestone, TN, USA

Craig Baker · From: Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.

George,
It is my understanding that the Black Box provides a low impedance output. If this is the case, placing a buffer such as Li'l Izzy after the Black Box would serve no purpose. However, if you're signal will be driving a pot volume pedal, the Li'l Izzy will work well at the pedal's output. Please let us know your findings.

Best wishes for 2014
Craig Baker 706-485-8792

cmbakerelectronics@gmail.com

C.M. Baker Electronics
P.O. Box 3965
Eatonton, GA 31024

Paddy Long · From: Christchurch, New Zealand

I have only recently got a Lil' Izzy and am pretty impressed with it.
I use a Telonics volume pedal and have two different racks - I first tried it with the Revelation Tube preamp rack and noticed quite an increase in clarity and separation which surprised me ...

I then tried it with my Telonics rack - this is my main rack and I use it for recording and also for concerts etc .. Telonics power amp, and preamp, Lexicon MX300 EFX unit and a Peterson stroborack tuner. The difference here was a lot more subtle - as I expected -- but it was still a definite plus, it has just added a bit more sparkle to a setup that already has amazing clarity, and warmth

So Craigs little unit will improve almost any rig imaginable I reckon Very Happy

_________________
14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases.

Paddy Long · From: Christchurch, New Zealand

Whooops double post :-}
_________________
14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases.

George Kimery · From: Limestone, TN, USA

Craig, you were quite right. The Izzy needs to go into the volume pedal output, not after the Black Box then into the volume pedal input. So, as you said, I am assuming that the output on the Black Box is low z, so that is why I could hardly tell any difference with the Izzy in the output of the Black Box. There is a significant difference with the Izzy plugged into the output of the pot pedal.

Craig Baker · From: Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.

George,
Everybody has to find their particular set up, but I wonder if you have tried reversing the order of things. By that I mean connecting the BB directly to the output of the volume pedal.

As you know, I always have, and always will recommend placing Li'l Izzy right at the pickup, to protect the signal from the effects of ANY loading, whether it is capacity from guitar cords or resistance from the front-end circuit of the following device. Once the guitar's overtones are lost, they can not be artificially reclaimed with treble controls, bright switches, or tweeters.

When you shake my tree, you get my apples. As always George, thank you for posting about Li'l Izzy.

Sincerely,
Craig Baker 706-485-8792

cmbakerelectronics@gmail.com

C.M. Baker Electronics
P.O. Box 3965
Eatonton, GA 31024

George Kimery · From: Limestone, TN, USA

Craig, I just tried it the way you suggested. Here is the problem that is totally unique to me: My problem is with the Evans FET 500 amp being so treble oriented. I can cut the treble all the way off on the amp, and it is still way too much treble. I need a way of controlling the tone before the signal reaches the amp.

I just hooked up the Izzy at the guitar as you recommend. Then to the volume pedal input, out of the volume pedal to the Black Box, then out of the Black Box to the Wet Reverb stomp box and on to the amp. It is a very clear, clean sound, but way too much treble, which I have no control over.

Brad and yourself, both state that the signal out of the guitar should see your device first. If I come out of the guitar to the Izzy first, then the variable Z tone control on the Black Box does not work and I have no tone control between the guitar pickup and the amp, except the one on the guitar, which I do not like.

The way I have everything chained now works for me in my particular situation and problem. I am not taking full advantage of the Izzy, but with this amp, I have no choice. The Izzy does definately still make a difference, just not as much as using it the correct way, directly out of the guitar. On my Nashville 112 amp, then I would be able to plug the Izzy right into the guitar, but not the Evans.

I just have an odd situation that requires an odd solution.

Craig Baker · From: Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.

George,
I had forgotten that you're using an Evans Amp. You are not alone. Players using Evans amps and Roland Cube 80s are reporting similar results. One customer said his guitar was "too clean." That's like saying a girl is too pretty.

Thanks again George for reminding me that you're going through an Evans amp. That gives me a better understanding.

Best regards,
Craig Baker 706-485-8792

cmbakerelectronics@gmail.com

C.M. Baker Electronics
P.O. Box 3965
Eatonton, GA 31024

Jean-Sebastien Gauthier · From: Quebec, Canada

I experimented today with my new Roland 80GX, Goodrich passive pedal and my lap steel. With my 71 Fender Twin I had to put the Izzy right after the guitar to keep the treble but with the Cube its different!

I found that with the Cube with the Izzy right after the guitar it sound too bright. With the Goodrich it sound good without the Izzy when the volume is full but when I drop the volume with the pedal I lost the treble and it sound dead. If I put the Lil Izzy at the output of the volume pedal I keep a perfect tone at any volume. Its very useful, now I will never use my volume pedal without the Izzy at the output.

Craig Baker · From: Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.

Jean-Sebastien,
Thanks for your post. You have discovered the advantages and the secret to having a top-quality active pedal, without spending hundreds of top-quality dollars.

The only thing missing. . . is the power supply and the cord waiting to be damaged.

Thanks again for writing.

Best regards,
Craig Baker 706-485-8792

cmbakerelectronics@gmail.com

C.M. Baker Electronics
P.O. Box 3965
Eatonton, GA 31024

Danny Letz · From: Old Glory,Texas, USA 79540

Somebody explain why you would use a lilizzy and blackbox together. I though they both did similar things.

Clete Ritta · From: San Antonio, Texas

Douglas Schuch · From: Valencia, Philippines

Danny Letz - someone may chime in with a more precise explanation, but using a Li'l Izzy after a pot pedal helps compensate for the tone loss the pot creates. I am not sure if there is any reason to use both with an active pedal.

For general info, I use a Li'l Izzy at the guitar, then a Hilton pedal and indeed I roll the highs off substantially on my amp with the Li'l Izzy vs. without. But there is no question in my mind that the tone and string separation is better WITH the Li'l Izzy once I EQ the amp to match. Every time I pull it out of the chain and try to experiment, it goes back in very quickly!
_________________
Bringing steel guitar to the bukid of Negros Oriental!

Craig Baker · From: Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.

Danny,
Never used a Black Box but all I hear is that they are an "excellent product."

That being said, It's my observation that Li'l Izzy's greatest advantage is when it is used right at the pickup. As with any good buffer, by using it right at the pickup, it allows all of the guitar's overtones to come through completely unrestricted by improper loading (mostly capacitive loading from guitar cords.) We have always promised to "buy your Li'l Izzy back" if you're not completely happy. The few that have been returned, have been from users of either the Roland Cube amps OR the Evans amps. Apparently both of those amps accentuate the highs in an attempt to make a guitar sound clean. With the overtones allowed by using a buffer, the sound becomes "too clean" for some players, as in the case of an earlier post by Jean-Sebastien Gauthier.

The Black Box is very popular because along with being an excellent buffer, it provides the tube warmth that science has never been able to duplicate with solid state circuitry. The two products are quite different and provide very different functions. Many players report that the Black Box and the Li'l Izzy get along nicely and play well together.

Thank you for your question Danny.

Sincerely,
Craig Baker 706-485-8792

cmbakerelectronics@gmail.com

C.M. Baker Electronics
P.O. Box 3965
Eatonton, GA 31024

Craig Baker · From: Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.

Thank you Douglas.

Sincerely,
Craig

John Gould · From: Houston, TX Now in Cleveland TX

I've been using the Little Izzy for years on a variety of different instruments. Steel, guitar , bass anything with a pickup . I works wonders on acoustic guitar with certain pickup systems. Any time I'm having a rough time getting a tone in the studio I pull out the Izzy and try it in line, I have never had a problem with too much "High's" using the Izzy.
_________________
A couple of guitars
Fender GTX 100 Fender Mustang III Fender Blues Jr. Boss Katana MKII 50
Justice Pro Lite and Sho Bud Pro II

Jack Ritter · From: Enid, Oklahoma, USA

FWIW---My hook up is:

Izzy into steel, from Izzy into Black Box, out of B Box into Hilton VP, out of VP into DD3 delay, and then out of delay into N-112. Vari- Z works ok on B-Box. Luv the results with this and my amp settings!
Jack
_________________
Zum D10 8x5,rev pre-amp, TC M300, Split 12, n-112, IZZY, Hilton vp, Geo L, BJS Hughey, Live Steel

Danny Letz · From: Old Glory,Texas, USA 79540

Many years ago, before I ever thought about playing pedal steel, an seasoned old steel player played with us one night. Someone ask him what the Li'l Izzy did and he said, "I don't know, but I'd go nuts without it". So I think it's pretty well respected.

Tom Gorr · From: Three Hills, Alberta

In general, cables *are* a lot more important to the signal chain than most people would want to believe, and there's something about the purity of the tone of a steel that really makes cable interactions stick out.

FWIW, I gave up on George L cables because it made my tone thin and exceedingly brittle. I haven't revisited the decision in a while, and I know there's an awful lot of love for George L cables, so its just my ears, opinion, etc. FWIW.

I'm sure they would help a guitar cut through like no other in a band situation, but at home, I just wasn't hearing what I wanted. I like fat with smooth but sweet highs...like 6v6 tubes.

I found my tone got fuller and sweeter when using a monster "rock" cable in an all passive chain...and then after I got the Telonics pedal I found it works the best with the monster "jazz" cable. It changed how I set my amp quite a bit, a lot flatter setting, and my mid sweep position changed from 800 to about 500, or whatever is at noon.

Forum Index > Electronics	Goto page 1, 2 Next	Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic