Ralph Mooney Pedal

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

As many of you know, Ralph has a pedal (he engages with his right foot) that raises his 4th string to an F#.

Three weeks ago, I installed this pedal on my guitar by adding a 7th pedal to my U-12. I am sorry I have not had this pedal for the past 35 years! I see NOW why Mooney has had it for soooo long a time. It is great.

But the biggest suprise I got is how I use it in the B6th mode (same as C neck on a D-10). In this mode, the E's are lowered to Eb, so this pedal only raises the string up to an F instead of the F# as is normal.

It just so happens to be in tune within a few cents. And what it gives me is a full 7 note 13th chord; IF the equivalent 7th and 8th pedals (as on a D-10; C6 neck) are engaged. Futher, by rocking on and off this pedal it gives me a second set of dissonant notes to the normal 11th chord dissonance obtained with these two pedals (7 and 8 on a D-10). I just love this change.

As some of you know, a full 11th cord (1, 3, 5, 7, 9 and 11th tones) has a dissonant sound, ie, the 3rd and 11th tones are only one note apart.

But if you add the 13th tone, you get a major 7th chord built on top of the major key chord. Since a major 7th chord gets its "flavor" from dissonance, adding the 13th brings in a second set of dissonant notes that just makes this an awesome chord.

There is NO place that I know of on ANY copedent where a player can get a full 7 note strummable 13th chord. With my adding the RM pedal and using it in the B6 mode and engaging pedals 7 and 8 (equivalent respect a C6 neck), I can now get that awesome chord. And it is wild folks.

And the beautiful part is I can use it in the E9th mode to get those incredible Mooney licks or, use it in the B6 mode to get that gorgeous 13th chord.

Will God's blessings never cease? No they won't. I thank him for that.

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 06 September 2003 at 10:07 AM.]

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 06 September 2003 at 10:12 AM.]

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 06 September 2003 at 10:15 AM.]

ed packard · From: Show Low AZ

"There is NO place that I know of on ANY copedent where a player can get a full 7 note 13th chord."

Check under the tunings section on this forum, and the last three years worth of my posts on tunings; 7 tone chords by the bucketfull. M13, 13, m13, etc.

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Thanks Ed, I will do it.

However, of all the standard copedents that I know of, none have a strummable 7 note 13th chord.

May Jesus bless you dear friend,

carl

Jeff Lampert · From: queens, new york city

Carl,
On a modern C6 tuning with a knee lever that lowers string 4 from A->Ab and is split tuned with pedal 7, you get a strummable 7-note C13 chord at the 7th fret pressing pedals 6,7 and the A->Ab lever (split-tuned). The notes from the 9th string up are C,E,G,Bb,D,F,A. I know this since this is a common pedal combo that I use. There are of course a number of other 13th chord options, but this is the one that exactly describes the scenario you put forth in your post, and can be performed on most any modern copedent.

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Jeff,

You are absolutely right. Boy, I stepped in it royal didn't I?

Oh well, back to the underside of the guitar where I belong

I had forgotten the old; and true saying,

"tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open thy mouth and remove all doubt".

Sorry Ralph, didn't mean ta drag you in to this.

carl

Kenny Dail · From: Kinston, N.C. R.I.P.

Carl, many D-10 players would put that Mooney change on the 8th pedal which was the Boo Wah pedal for the C6 neck and use it with the right foot as the need demanded it.

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kd...and the beat goes on...

Jeff Lampert · From: queens, new york city

Carl, I know you're just being silly. There is no one I've ever met or read on the Forum with the overall breadth and depth of your knowledge about everything related to steel guitar. No one.

Bill Stafford · From: Gulfport,Ms. USA

HI Carl. I have had that change on my first double ten made by A.J. Smith many eons ago. It was the only knee lever this guitar had and it only raised the E to F#. Still have this change today and it is on my left UP lever centered between the two left knee levers and is easily used with pedals A & b depressed. And in the lower chord register with A & B depressed, I have added an additonal pull to give me a seventh chord in the bottom of that chord. Works for me....Old habits with that F# change. BTW, this guitar was built before knee levers lowered strings. I still have this guitar, nine pedal and one knee lever-LKL. It is all beautiful birds eye maple, two gorgeous rows of inlay and NO END PLATES. The body has a gentle curve around the corners and is still beautiful to this day. No cabinet drop on this machine. It was made before cabinet drop was invented. lol No cross shafts either. Just neat phenolic triangles to change the direction of pulls, etc...Will show it to you when I can....

Enjoyed you in St. Louis. And, should you and Ed Packard ever decide to build a pedal steel, it would just have to be the very best yet to date!!!! Hint, hint...lol

Bill Stafford

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I have this change on my LKV.

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Carl, thank you for all your very intelligent posts. And this one is another great eye opener for many players.

A lot of these things are not too well known or advertised But,

Alvino Rey had the first Strummable 13th chord that I ever heard, that was in 1938. Of course , then I had to have it too on my D8..

Are you going to make your dual use knee levers system available for the market,Carl?

I would like to have a couple of knee levers do two functions with a electo-mechanical switch that you have worked on. That would help eliminate excess knee levers. How about it ....?.....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Jody Sanders · From: Magnolia,Texas, R.I.P.

I have this change on the 8th pedal. I moved the "boowah" to the 4th. pedal as I hardly ever used the 4th pedal on the C6 tuning. Jody.

Moon in Alaska · From: Kasilof, Alaska * R.I.P.

Hi Carl....
I have enjoyed your threads on this forum
and look forward to seeing them !!
I use that 4th string move a heck of a lot... But I have allways had it on a knee. I am
sure you will remember on the video
I sent you..
I am still trying to get back to normal
since my wife of 52 years has passed on. I
think a little of this forum would help me !!!

You friend,
Moon

------------------
<< Moon Mullin in Alaska >>
==Carter S-10==
<< Old Fender-400 >>
== Evans FET 500 Custom LV ==

CLICK HERE FOR MOON'S NEW WEB SITE

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

I just got several emails about what I said. And the person who sent me the email was absolutely correct.

I made an error in creating this thread. So lest I lead someone astray, let me correct that error now.

I said Ralph Mooney has always raised his 4th string to an F# with a pedal he engages with his right foot. I should have said, 2nd string; since RM has never had our so-called "chromatic" strings. His first string is a G# and his 2nd string is an E.

Incidently, Moon is the player who created the high G# to A pull.

I apologize for this blunder.

carl

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Moon!!!!

Soooooooo very nice to see you posting again. YOU have been missed man.

Look forward to seeing you often in the future. So sorry about your loss. I have been married for 52 yrs, and Jesus' words, "A man shall leave his parents and a woman shall leave hers and they shall become one" has never been more true in those blessed marriages that reach that golden plateau.

My heart aches for you dear friend. May Jesus bring you comfort in this loss,

carl

bruce fischer · From: florissant, mo. 63031 USA

glad to see you back moon !

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

My LKL has been that way since the 70's with a fairly stiff 1/2 stop for the F (E-F-F#)

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

I too have had a lever that raises the top E to an F#. However, I gave this up for a pedal instead. I made it my last Universal pedal which is pedal 7; so I could reach it easily with my right foot to emulate Mooney.

Just like many feel that it is easier to use the B and C pedal for fast changes than having a knee lever, I believe now it is easier to use a RM pedal to get his classic licks rather than do it with a knee lever.

Of course these are just my opinions. Time will tell the wisdom (or not) in that feeling.

carl

Buck Grantham R.I.P. · From: Denham Springs, LA. USA

I have raised my 4th string on the e-9th neck to f# for 25 years but When Del Mullen built my new Mullen I left it off. I had it on my RKR . Now after 3 years I still miss it bad. Thinking about putting it back on. Carl ,, keep the suggestions comming. When you come up with something it makes us think of new things too. That's what makes this forum so good for all of us. We learn something new every day. Thanks. I love the splits a lot.

Jody Sanders · From: Magnolia,Texas, R.I.P.

Right Buck. Now if you could just learn to stop losing you bar, I think you will be alright. Jody.

Hans Holzherr · From: Münchenbuchsee, Switzerland

So far I have been achieving the E to F# change with my C pedal. While this may cut the number of possibilities in half, the same change can be achieved 5 frets higher with the A pedal on the 5th string (E to Eb lever engaged). I'd be happy to read your arguments (or see tab examples) for putting that change on a separate pedal or lever.

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

My "argument" is in a word; Ralph Mooney. If you have ever seen him use it, I believe you will see that it cannot work as well any other way.

I thought that might be the case long before I took it off my knee lever and put it on the floor so my right foot could easily engage it. Now, there is no question in my mind that it is the way to go.

It is faster and has "that sound" I was NEVER able to get with either the C pedal or the knee lever. That lightning quick stoccato lick immediately AFTER a quick A pedal lick I was never able to achieve until I put it on the floor close to my right foot.

Praise Jesus for giving us geniouses like RM,

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 11 September 2003 at 06:20 AM.]

Brad Burch · Posted 11 Sep 2003 6:15 am

Can somebody post a quick tab of a lick using this pedal?

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