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Topic: LIfting the bar... |
Nathan Powell
From:
Mississippi, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2013 5:38 am |
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| ...I am having trouble with cleaning the tone when I lift it off of the strings. I keep getting the metallic 'cling' sound. Any suggestions on how to clean that up? |
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Jean-Sebastien Gauthier
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 17 Dec 2013 5:40 am
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| Maybe muting with with the right hand palm. |
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Nathan Powell
From:
Mississippi, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2013 6:12 am
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Near the end of the changer? The problem comes from the initial lift off of the strings.
Thanks for the suggestion! |
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Jean-Sebastien Gauthier
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 17 Dec 2013 6:56 am
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| Mute with your left hand fingers behind the bar? |
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Jack Aldrich
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2013 11:04 am
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My steel instructors, both pedal and non-pedal, have disabused me of lifting the bar. You'll get noise every time you set the bar back down, especially that .011 G# on the 3rd string. You sound a lot more fluid if you block with your right hand and keep the steel on the strings. The only exception is when I play Cajun style. The bar hops up and down with a lot of hammer-ons in their style.
_________________
Jack Aldrich
Carter & ShoBud D10's
D8 & T8 Stringmaster
Rickenbacher B6
3 Resonator guitars
Asher Alan Akaka Special SN 6
Canopus D8 |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 17 Dec 2013 12:59 pm
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| John Aldrich wrote: |
| My steel instructors, both pedal and non-pedal, have disabused me of lifting the bar. |
Most of the time, you don't have to lift the bar, but proper training and technique will assure that when you do, there are no extraneous noises. This is why blocking and volume pedal technique are so important.  |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2013 1:24 pm
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Donny nailed it, don't lift the bar except for maybe hammer ons and off.
_________________
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 17 Dec 2013 2:31 pm
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I lift the bar off the strings every so often. I don't have any extra noises happening. I guess I have been doing it long enough to get it right. The one thing I can't do, and I have tried, is slide the bar down to the open position without getting the noise of the bar going over the rollers.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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David Nugent
From:
Gum Spring, Va.
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Posted 17 Dec 2013 3:54 pm
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| There are a number of steel guitar instrumentals that require lifting the bar and setting it back down cleanly to play them properly; 'Sawed Off Shotgun' and Buddy's arrangement of 'Greensleeves' are two such examples. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 17 Dec 2013 4:11 pm
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| Here's how I do it. I'm already muting the strings behind the bar with my middle finger (and the rest of the hand). To lift the bar silently I slightly twist the hand to the left, like turning a doorknob. The bar lifts while the finger is still muting the strings. Then the whole hand can be lifted. It is a night & day difference in noise between this and just lifting the bar straight off the strings and with practice it is just as simple and efficient a motion. |
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Daniel Policarpo
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Posted 17 Dec 2013 4:53 pm
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| Jon, I am doing as you suggest and have noted a vast improvement already. Now all I need to do is practice it. Much appreciated. |
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Jim Williams
From:
Meridian, Mississippi, USA - Home of Peavey!
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Posted 17 Dec 2013 5:16 pm
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When I was working with the lap steel, I used the method Jon describes and it was helpful.
_________________
GFI SM10 3/4, 1937 Gibson EH-150, 2 - Rondo SX Lap Steels and a Guyatone 6 String C6. Peavey 400 and a Roland 40 Amps. Behringer Reverb Pedal. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 17 Dec 2013 5:48 pm
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Next time I'm at the guitar I'll try to pay attention to what I do.
I came to pedal steel from Dobro, and I can play "Pickaway" in A on the C6 neck with a round bar.
Obviously you can't mute behind the bar if you're Fluxifying or Mooneyizing. I am hundreds of miles from my guitar but I think the key is to lift the bar cleanly, and put it back down cleanly and quickly. Indecisive or tentative playing will ALWAYS yield buzzy or weak tone.
There are a few ways and contexts for lifting the bar; what are you trying to do when you lift?
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 17 Dec 2013 7:05 pm About 'lifting' the bar..............
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Don't you get a staccato sound when you lift the bar?
I tho't the steel guitar was supposed to be a fluid tonal instrument? |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 17 Dec 2013 10:38 pm
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Ray, the steel can croon like Bing, belt like Frank, or scat like Louis.
It's hard to play either Steel Guitar Rag or Remington Ride without lifting.
Even if you don't do it often , We're all gonna want to do it cleanly.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 18 Dec 2013 1:28 am
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This is one of those techniques I actually have to go back and figure out how I do it, as I routinely lift the bar both to move and to mute no matter what tune I am playing. The "no noise" lifting and landing of the bar is something that has come about through practice without me thinking about "how".
In essence the way Jon Light describe is how I do it; twist the hand slightly to lift the bar "a hairwidth" or so off the strings, while the palm/fingers mutes behind the bar.
Landing the bar back down on the strings in a new, or in the same, position is pretty much the same technique in reverse; the back of the hand lands first and then the bar comes down. The only "extra" here is that the bar normally lands on the strings in the exact moment I pick the strings, so any unwanted "bar-landing noise" gets masked by the pick-attack. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 18 Dec 2013 6:09 am
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I put about 20 minutes a day out of my practice routine into playing fiddle tunes using as many open string hammer ons as possible. I start real slow and try to get it clean sounding. Seems to help my bar control and makes it easy to play a few fast licks on the bandstand.
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Bob |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 18 Dec 2013 9:43 am
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| Quote: |
This is one of those techniques I actually have to go back and figure out how I do it, as I routinely lift the bar both to move and to mute no matter what tune I am playing. The "no noise" lifting and landing of the bar is something that has come about through practice without me thinking about "how".
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I am pretty much like George. I know I do it, but really don't know why. It's a subconscious thing. I mostly use it to go from one position to another without sliding the bar. I'll have to pay attention this week to see if I can figure out why.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 18 Dec 2013 12:08 pm
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| Henry Matthews wrote: |
| Donny nailed it, don't lift the bar except for maybe hammer ons and off. |
I want to clarify my post, I was a little vague. Lifting the bar is a bad habit to get into to substitute for blocking. I know several steelers that come from the old school of playing non-pedals that use the bar lifting method as a substitute for blocking and it takes away from their playing to me.
If you are a beginner, then learn other ways of blocking, pick or palm, and keep the bar on the strings. That is unless you are using for an effect or hammer ons, etc.
_________________
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 18 Dec 2013 4:52 pm
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| Henry Matthews wrote: |
| Henry Matthews wrote: |
| Donny nailed it, don't lift the bar except for maybe hammer ons and off. |
I want to clarify my post, I was a little vague. Lifting the bar is a bad habit to get into to substitute for blocking. I know several steelers that come from the old school of playing non-pedals that use the bar lifting method as a substitute for blocking and it takes away from their playing to me.
If you are a beginner, then learn other ways of blocking, pick or palm, and keep the bar on the strings. That is unless you are using for an effect or hammer ons, etc. |
I'm not going to go back and read every post again, but I don't remember anyone saying they use the bar lifting as a substitute for any other type of blocking. I certainly don't
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 18 Dec 2013 5:31 pm
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Bar lifting as a way to block is an essential part of the sacred steel style. It really is a great sound that can be very useful.
_________________
Bob |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 18 Dec 2013 6:35 pm
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Well Richard, maybe you don't but the ones I was taking about do. I'm by no means an expert or a pro in any sense. This is just my observation from some players that have learned other means an ways of doing things. It's the way they learned and they'll never change. I still think if you are just beginning to play steel, it's a bad habit to get into that will hold a player back in certain ways.
Maybe we are thinking about different kind of bar lifting. I too lift the bar at times but I don't do it sliding up or down the neck to block the last notes. I just got thru watching the Big E playing on on YouTube and he don't either.
_________________
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 18 Dec 2013 7:23 pm
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I don't lift it to mute either if I am going to another fret up or down the neck. The notes are already blocked with my palm or pick blocked. And to be specific, I think it is only when I am playing fills in a song. There would be silence as the singer sings, then I will be at the fret position ready to fill in that space.
But you are right, Henry. If a beginner uses it instead of learning the correct methods to block, then it is a bad habit, or "technique" to learn.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 19 Dec 2013 4:38 am A Video Is Worth More than a 1000 Words
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Blocking behind the bar is the key.
The intro to Al Brisco's song "Ralph's Reel" is an excellent exercise in hammer-ons and pull-offs using this technique.
It is taught here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvC_CCApEG4
The technique is shown slowly with close-ups.
Well worth the study! |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 19 Dec 2013 6:02 am
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| Richard Sinkler wrote: |
| If a beginner uses it instead of learning the correct methods to block, then it is a bad habit, or "technique" to learn. |
+1 !! 
One technique should not be used as a substitute for any other technique, no matter what part of steel playing we are talking about. Knowing them all and practice to be able to apply the right one as near to perfection as we can when needed, is the key to be able to create the sounds we want where and when we want them.
I consider every technique that works as an addition in the "toolbox", and could not care less whether a technique is "right" or "wrong" as long as it sounds right when applied. To me muting by lifting the bar, comes in addition to various forms of palm blocking, pick blocking, finger-tip blocking, bar hand finger blocking, etc, etc - all methods acquired through decades of playing, and restricting how I can, or am "allowed" to, block/mute is out of the question.
For someone new to the instrument it is different. Better to restrict to, and practice, a few general block/mute techniques from the beginning, and let all the alternative, and often very personal, ways to do it come in as natural additions over the years.
As this thread is about how to eliminate noise when lifting the bar off the strings, it seems the "how to" is well covered. The rest is all about practicing, practicing, practicing ... until it works as intended - as just another natural reflex. |
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