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Topic: That "SOUND" is gone forever !! |
Eddie Cunningham
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 8 Dec 2013 7:02 pm |
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| I've been listening to the "Territorial Airwaves" old Hawaiian music by Dick Mcintire , Lani Mcintire and others including David Kelii and also Jerry Byrds older music and they all sounded so "GOOD" !! They all played thru older tube amps with low power and part of their sound was the natural distortion of the tubes and speakers. I grew up listening to the old Hawaiians and it is what I really enjoy. The modern amps all sound too pure and sharp and IMHO the old sounds were the best !! Jerry Byrds steel with Hank Sr. , E.Tubb , Red Foley , Cowboy Copas and others back in the late 40s sounded so much better than those modern loud steels and amps !! I'm just an olde fogey rambling away and almost 85 yrs old and just wanted to say my thoughts. The best days are behind us !! the olde geezer AKA Eddie "C" |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 8 Dec 2013 7:48 pm
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Hi Eddie:
You are correct about "That Sound" but there are purist players as yourself that keep the torch lit and strive to maintain that retro vibe.
A modern lap steel out of a Nashville 400 won't produce the same sound as a Supro played through a low watt tube amp.
Didn't you have a Quad steel a while back?
Lenny |
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Eddie Cunningham
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 8 Dec 2013 7:53 pm T - 8
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| Hi Len , I did own a 1950s T-8 Magnatone that I sold years ago !! Just about the best steel I ever played ! Kick myself for letting her go !! I guess I am hopelessly locked in the past !! The best days are gone forever !! Olde Geeze AKA Eddie "C" |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 8 Dec 2013 10:14 pm
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| Surely if they could build tube amplifiers seventy years ago the technology still exists to make identical ones today. Technology never disappears. Before the war my grandfather was an amateur radio enthusiast, and he used to build radios in his shed from the ground up, just using component parts. His radios all incorporated amplifier circuits. If anyone had asked him to custom-build an amplifier from scratch he could have done it with no problems. Unfortunately he's not been around for many years now, but there must be many competent electricians with his talents. |
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Michael Laslovich
From:
North California, USA
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Posted 8 Dec 2013 10:23 pm Not Lost Yet
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Hi Eddie,
While I'm a few years younger than you I was raised on the old school music. Started playing Hawaiian Steel when I was 8/9 years old. It was a old Stella and you had to really play to get sound.Used to play the best of Hank Sr. Album all the way through by heart
So in Highschool was teased for playing the steel so started playing standard rhythm in a rock band than family happened didn't touch a steel for about 30 years. Its been about 8 years ago I picked up a Dobro copy and have been playing it hard. I swear metal flies off that Korean copy. I just ordered an Old Tonemaster tonight and am really excited.
Talking amps I played through a twin reverb back in the day it took lots of time to save up for that amp. And yes I blew speakers tubes etc. but I think that old Twin had a sweet sound or it could be mean and nasty as well you know what I mean.
You are totally right sounds today are just to artificial. But I have a small Marshall amp I use now and it has a tube in it they are trying to bring back that sound we loved back in the day.
So rest assured we are out there that want to preserve good clean sounds, in this techno world which is so overwhelming. Take Care
_________________
AKA Riverwolf
http://www.soundclick.com/riverwolfthyme
Riverwolfthyme the Band by the river.
Steel guitar,Lap Steel, resonator guitar or resophonic guitar Dobro, Bass, 12 and 6 string Guitars |
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Dennis Smith
From:
Covington, Georgia, USA
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Jeff Au Hoy
From:
Honolulu, Hawai'i
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Posted 8 Dec 2013 10:44 pm
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Eddie, you are NOT "just an olde fogey rambling..."
There may be over half a century between our ages, but I agree 100% with everything you said.
There are more than a handful of young Hawaiian musicians coming up now who are genuinely interested in the "old" sound. It will make a comeback. |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 9 Dec 2013 3:13 am
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I couldn't agree more Eddie.  And Jeff....I hope you are correct about a renewed interest in the so-called old sound.
I still build a few tube amps, from old Valco circuitry designs.
Some old cheap (when new) tube amps still have amazing sound...... |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 9 Dec 2013 4:50 am
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No it's not ... 
I hand selected every capacitor, resistor, etc ... Measured every volt in every section ... Hand wired everything ... Put it in an old Champs chassis and cabinet with a hemp cone speaker ... Dick M. Would have enjoyed the smell as it warms up ... 
If Andy Iona was alive ... He'd be playing a Dustpan thru a The "Luigifier"  
I'd say production and sales of the combos is about a year and a half away ... I'll have 5 of 6 kids in school by then ... And, Luigi (2 yrs) has great solder skills ...  |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 9 Dec 2013 7:10 am
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How do we know that the players of old would not have preferred the more hi-fi sounds that amps have today?
Listen to Joaquin Murphey and Speedy West in the 1960s or Jules Ah See and Billy Hew Len. You can't get that sound on the really old amps.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 9 Dec 2013 7:47 am Re: That
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| Eddie Cunningham wrote: |
| The modern amps all sound too pure and sharp and IMHO the old sounds were the best !! |
what you are listening to is not necessarily how they sounded... when you take into consideration the recording techniques of that time, the equipment used...the mastering or the lack of..the source from which the CD or MP3 you hear now was made from. the umpteen number of times it has been sonically messed with by the time it gets to your ears now...
there is no way that you are hearing a faithful reproduction of what they really sounded like live on the day the old recording was made.
so what you are liking is the sonic coloration of the original sound of these artists. if you were sitting in the room on the day it was made, you might think differently. |
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Bill Leff
From:
Santa Cruz, CA, USA
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Posted 9 Dec 2013 9:06 am
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Biil Hatcher beat me to it.. I agree that a lot of what we are hearing is introduced by the recording process from those eras.
Last edited by Bill Leff on 9 Dec 2013 10:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 9 Dec 2013 9:43 am Re: That
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| Bill Hatcher wrote: |
| ..what you are listening to is not necessarily how they sounded... ...so what you are liking is the sonic coloration of the original sound of these artists. if you were sitting in the room on the day it was made, you might think differently. |
Bill has a point. When I was a teenager I used to listen to Leadbelly recordings from the 40s, but, try as I may, I could never get a 12-string guitar to sound like his, even when I tried a Stella guitar just like the one he used. It was some time before I realised that the sound I liked was created by Alan Lomax's old tape recorder. The real music that Leadbelly played didn't sound like that live to anyone listening at the time. |
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Wayne Carver
From:
Martinez, Georgia, USA
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Posted 9 Dec 2013 10:09 am
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So even with a replica amp, we'd still need to somehow duplicate the old recording techniques?
Maybe the old microphones they place near the old amps.
I would add Don Helms to that "good" sound also. |
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Wayne Carver
From:
Martinez, Georgia, USA
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Posted 9 Dec 2013 10:11 am
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| Rick Aiello wrote: |
No it's not ...
I hand selected every capacitor, resistor, etc ... Measured every volt in every section ... Hand wired everything ... Put it in an old Champs chassis and cabinet with a hemp cone speaker ... Dick M. Would have enjoyed the smell as it warms up ...
If Andy Iona was alive ... He'd be playing a Dustpan thru a The "Luigifier"
I'd say production and sales of the combos is about a year and a half away ... I'll have 5 of 6 kids in school by then ... And, Luigi (2 yrs) has great solder skills ... |
Nice looking rig, is that lap steel original or a replica? |
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Rick Aiello
From:
Berryville, VA USA
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Posted 9 Dec 2013 10:22 am
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| It's an original ... Dustpan |
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Frank Welsh
From:
Upstate New York, USA
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Posted 9 Dec 2013 10:39 am
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I would like to add some thoughts that standard guitar players have offered on this same topic.
Years ago many amplifier components were made from chemicals that have been banned for safety and environmental reasons. Solder no longer contains the lead or as much lead as it once did. Speakers and other components have changed. Some of that great old-time sound was a fortunate coincidence of the components available in those days.
Recording consisted of a tube amp into (possibly) a tube drive microphone into a tube mixing deck into whatever cutters, etc. that made the final vinyl. Then the record was played on an all tube record player, radio, or home stereo system.
I agree with previous posters on this subject in that so much technology has changed and also that the final audio product may not have been like the original sound from the instrument, be it steel guitar or standard guitar. |
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Paul Honeycutt
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 9 Dec 2013 11:18 am
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I think we're all trying to get the sound we grew up with and what's stuck in our heads. Use whatever tool that is available to try to make that sound, be it tubes or micro chips.
I have a '52 Silvertone "Champ" amp that I don't really care for with guitar. But when I plug my '47 National New Yorker in it, it's a thing of beauty. |
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Jim Newberry
From:
Seattle, Upper Left America
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Posted 9 Dec 2013 1:18 pm
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Sure, part of the thing is the recording technique/technologies of the day, but I'm still amazed that somebody will spend years looking for the right screw for their '40 Rick B6 then be "happy" plugging it in to the latest crappy mass-produced solid-state modeling amp. Sorry, but the guitar + amp IS the instrument. The modern amps are more convenient, but there's still nothing like plugging an old guitar in to an old (or re-created, in my case) tubey amp to get close to capturing that old sound. And smell.
But there's still a modern (especially for the pedal steelers) sound that the old amps can't give (200 watts of juice, for instance). I just prefer the older sound, like young Eddie.
Whew, I had to get that off my chest. Again.
Cheerfully, Jim the old anachronist.
_________________
"The Masher of Touch and Tone"
-1950 Fender Dual Pro 8
-1950's Fender Dual Pro 6
-Clinesmith D8
-Clinesmith 8-string Frypan
-Clinesmith Joaquin
-~1940 National New Yorker
-~1936 Rickenbacher B6
-Homebuilt Amps |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 9 Dec 2013 1:31 pm
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| Every time I hear Bobby Ingano or Hal Smith play tubefully thru a lil solid state it turns the whole discussion inside out. |
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Greg Booth
From:
Anchorage, AK, USA
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Posted 9 Dec 2013 2:04 pm
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| Ron Whitfield wrote: |
| Every time I hear Bobby Ingano or Hal Smith play tubefully thru a lil solid state it turns the whole discussion inside out. |
What is it about the music that made such an impression on our impressionable ears and minds? Is it the eq contour, the vacuum tubes distorting, the lead in the solder? Nah, it was the music and tone coming from the hands and hearts of our musician heroes. It's the music that made the connection and the ability of great musicians to make beautiful sounds with the tools at hand. Great players can pull their tone from modern gear.
_________________
Greg
Kathy Kallick Band
www.youtube.com/user/aksliderdobro |
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Jim Newberry
From:
Seattle, Upper Left America
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Posted 9 Dec 2013 2:07 pm
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And, I can make a perfectly wonderful vintage tube amp sound horrific... and usually do! I think Bobby could play a fire hydrant hooked up to a threshing machine and it'd sound fantastic. And, granted, lil' solid state amps (not to mention the superb ones like Quilters) are sure better than they were a decade ago, but the nostalgic hobbyist lunk I am, I prefer heating up the tubes. To each his own!
PS: I'm currently listening to Gabby and Feet digitized to Pandora, delivered to me via a digital wireless signal to my digital iPad. Still sounds like Gabby and Feet!
_________________
"The Masher of Touch and Tone"
-1950 Fender Dual Pro 8
-1950's Fender Dual Pro 6
-Clinesmith D8
-Clinesmith 8-string Frypan
-Clinesmith Joaquin
-~1940 National New Yorker
-~1936 Rickenbacher B6
-Homebuilt Amps |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 9 Dec 2013 2:32 pm
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Yes, tone is mostly in the hands of the player, especially when an instrument is being played with a tone bar. If you want to compare old and new sounds you have to compare older and more recent recordings from the same musician. Jerry Byrd, for instance, has a lot of material available from his early days right through to fairly recent, just before he died, so we can compare the two. In some cases he has recorded the same number several years apart.
It never ceases to amaze me how well magnetic tape holds up. Jam sessions that I recorded in the early 60s still play and, to me, sound the same as they did then. The incredible thing is that the recordings only exist in the magnetic effect on the metal particles in the tape emulsion. The particles are still aligned the same way as they were fifty years ago. I wonder how many hard disk recordings made recently will still sound the same in fifty years. |
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Ron Whitfield
From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
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Posted 9 Dec 2013 2:36 pm
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| Jim Newberry wrote: |
Quilter
I prefer heating up the tubes. |
Jeff Au Hoy get's positively tubey with his SS Q, but there is a difference, even our hero's sound better basking in the glow of glass. |
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Niels Andrews
From:
Salinas, California, USA
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Posted 9 Dec 2013 2:46 pm
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Well I don't know about the Steel Guitar greats of the past, but the great BB King, seldom if ever took an amp to a gig. He just plugged in and played what was there, and I don't think his sound has changed.
I don't really think Paul Franklin or Tommy White would sound bad regardless of what they were playing, they as well as BB and many others have a gift that is in their minds and their hands. The guitars and amps did not make them great, a lot of hard work, many hours, and discipline developed their "Sound". Same is true for the greats of the past.
_________________
Die with Memories. Not Dreams.
Good Stuff like Zum S-12, Wolfe Resoport
MSA SS-12, Telonics Combo. |
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