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Topic: Help identifying this old bar |
Chris Templeton
From:
The Green Mountain State
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Posted 7 Dec 2013 7:48 am |
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Does anyone know what this bar is? it is 27/8" long and a thin 5/8" wide. It looks like it would shatter if dropped on cement. It also has a metal insert.
_________________
Excel 3/4 Pedal With An 8 String Hawaiian Neck, Sierra Tapper (10 string with a raised fretboard to fret with fingers), Single neck Fessenden 3/5
"The Tapper" : https://christophertempleton.bandcamp.com/album/the-tapper
Soundcloud Playlist: https://soundcloud.com/bluespruce8: |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 7 Dec 2013 9:57 am
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Chris, sorry I can't help. Don't intend to hijack your post, but if anyone does know, perhaps they will also be able to identify this one. It appears to be steel encased in black Bakelite. The steel insert is machined to be slightly concaved on the flat end, which is about 3/4" diameter, flared down to about 11/16" on the bullet end. The bar is about 2-3/4" long, and weighs in at just a tad over 3 ounces. It gives a more muted effect than a polished chrome bar, and is noticeably less "slippery" on the strings.
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Roger Shackelton
From:
MINNESOTA (deceased)
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Posted 7 Dec 2013 10:11 am
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Hi Jack,
Your Black Bar May Be One Known As A "Black Rajah" From The 1940s or 1950s. ??
Roger |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 7 Dec 2013 10:46 am
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| Roger Shackelton wrote: |
| Hi Jack |
I love subtle humor. |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 7 Dec 2013 10:48 am
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| Thanks, Roger. I have read and heard about the old "Black Rajah" bars. Thought that this indeed may be one of them, but wasn't sure. |
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Jim Bob Sedgwick
From:
Clinton, Missouri USA
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Posted 7 Dec 2013 2:20 pm
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| Lee Baucum wrote: |
| Roger Shackelton wrote: |
| Hi Jack |
I love subtle humor. |
NEVER say that on an airplane!!! |
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Rick Abbott
From:
Indiana, USA
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Bob Knight
From:
Bowling Green KY
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Posted 7 Dec 2013 6:22 pm
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Those tapered bars were designed for more accurate slants on the longer scale steels.  |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 8 Dec 2013 5:05 am
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How does a tapered bar make for more accurate slants? the bottom of a cylinder is always directly under the core, regardless of diameter, and I always use my ears, not my eyes, to place a slant. I can slant in tune with a Stevens, a 3/4", 7/8" or 1" bar with equal (and usually sufficient) accuracy.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Chris Templeton
From:
The Green Mountain State
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Rick Abbott
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 8 Dec 2013 7:24 am Original Question
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Right, the outside is Bakelite. It is a resinous, plastic-like material. The size was small because, at the time these were made, there were door-to-door salesmen selling lapsteels and lessons for a teacher who would either come to the home, or set up a local teaching location. A lot of ladies and children took up steel in the 30's-50's, a national craze really.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakelite
_________________
RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Sehy #112
1975 Peavey Pacer |
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Scott Henderson
From:
Camdenton, Missouri, USA
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Posted 8 Dec 2013 7:30 am
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I have one of the dark green ones similar to the pics above....I received in a case with a 41 new yorker.....
_________________
D-10 JCH Dekley U-12 D-8 Magnatone Mullen RP Evans RE 200 profex 2 BJS bars
Dentyne gum (peppermint) |
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Scott Henderson
From:
Camdenton, Missouri, USA
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Posted 8 Dec 2013 7:31 am
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I have one of the dark green ones similar to the pics above....I received in a case with a 41 new yorker.....
_________________
D-10 JCH Dekley U-12 D-8 Magnatone Mullen RP Evans RE 200 profex 2 BJS bars
Dentyne gum (peppermint) |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 8 Dec 2013 8:02 am
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Nick Manoloff did have his name on similar bars, mostly sold through "Ed Sale", who was the mail-order "Guitar Center" of the '40s, '50s, and '60s. Hawaiian guitar bars of the round type were often 1/2" or 9/16" in diameter, and the Bakelite bars, both solid and weighted, were very popular. Back in the day, they were preferred for their rather "sweet" sound and lack of string noise.  |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 8 Dec 2013 8:47 am
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
| How does a tapered bar make for more accurate slants? the bottom of a cylinder is always directly under the core, regardless of diameter, and I always use my ears, not my eyes, to place a slant. I can slant in tune with a Stevens, a 3/4", 7/8" or 1" bar with equal (and usually sufficient) accuracy. |
Lane,
fwiw, Ray Montee showed me how he uses the tip of a tapered bar to do slants where the rounded tip allows you to play two adjacent strings as if the bar was laying straight across them, while also playing a 3rd string that could be one or two frets above or below the two adjacents.
For example, the tip could be playing strings 2 and 3 at fret5, and the other end could be playing string-5 at fret 3 or 4.
This type of slanting also predates what became standard 6th-tuning Pedal functions, for example. |
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Glenn Uhler
From:
Trenton, New Jersey, USA
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Posted 8 Dec 2013 10:21 am Not all Bakelite bars
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As noted, not all Bakelite bars were black. I played with one like the picture in July of 1960. It was a loner from my guitar teacher. Wish I still had it!
_________________
1974 Marlen S-12 1968 Tele 1969 Martin D-35H |
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Bob Knight
From:
Bowling Green KY
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Posted 8 Dec 2013 10:46 am
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| Pete Burak wrote: |
| Lane Gray wrote: |
| How does a tapered bar make for more accurate slants? the bottom of a cylinder is always directly under the core, regardless of diameter, and I always use my ears, not my eyes, to place a slant. I can slant in tune with a Stevens, a 3/4", 7/8" or 1" bar with equal (and usually sufficient) accuracy. |
Lane,
fwiw, Ray Montee showed me how he uses the tip of a tapered bar to do slants where the rounded tip allows you to play two adjacent strings as if the bar was laying straight across them, while also playing a 3rd string that could be one or two frets above or below the two adjacents.
For example, the tip could be playing strings 2 and 3 at fret5, and the other end could be playing string-5 at fret 3 or 4.
This type of slanting also predates what became standard 6th-tuning Pedal functions, for example. |
What Pete said. |
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Joe Naylor
From:
Avondale, Arizona, USA
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Posted 8 Dec 2013 2:51 pm yep
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Donny is right - in the 50's and 60's that is mostly what I saw other then the flat narrow ones.
They were Bakelite which is what pot and pan handles are made of - basically a special clay - many were filled with lead - I had one I carved my initial in the end of the lead - with my small hands (as a kid) I could not slant with a straight chrome bar. Like Pete said you could catch the top two strings on the same fret.
I teacher made me do that for hours and by the time I got it I had forgotten what I needed it for - I think Oahu sold them too - but they were the go to place as far as I knew back then.
Joe Naylor
www.steelseat.com
_________________
Joe Naylor, Avondale, AZ (Phoenix) Announcer/Emcee owner www.steelseat.com *** OFFERING SEATS AND Effects cases with or without legs and other stuff ****** -Desert Rose Guitar S-10, Life Member of the Arizona Carport Pickers Assoc., Southwest Steel Guitar Assoc., Texas Steel Guitar Assoc., GA Steel Guitar Assoc., KS Steel Guitar Assoc. (Asleep at the Steel) tag line willed to me by a close late friend RIP |
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Ray Minich
From:
Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra
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Posted 12 Dec 2013 9:20 am
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Bakelite was one of the first "plastics" if not the first. Really came in handy in military electronics in the '40s, and then went on to more phame and phortune.....
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Lawyers are done: Emmons SD-10, 3 Dekleys including a D10, NV400, and lots of effects units to cover my clams... |
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Tab Tabscott
From:
Somewhere between Vashon Island and The mainland.
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Posted 12 Dec 2013 10:13 am Manoloff tortoise shell colored bar
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I've got a Nick Manoloff bar, the bakelite is made to look like tortoiseshell. Has a white cap on the flat end with his name and a patent number.
It's about as wide as a 6 string neck, feels like it's got a metal weight inside.
Are these things worth anything, or are they even rare?
_________________
Tab Tabscott
Play nice.
They is none else. |
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Glen E. Lanning
From:
La Grange, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 12 Dec 2013 1:53 pm
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I still have my "Black Rajah" tapered bar from the mid 50's. At the time I was taking lessons locally in Eastern Ohio by a Oahu Rep.- so my best guess is that they were sold under Oahu name. At the time we were taught on 6 strings steels and this bar was an improvement from the other bars up to that time. Here are the 3 bars I used until I went to homemade SS bars until I purchased a "professional" bar.
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Past Secretary/President, MASGA
Mullen U12 (2004)
ShoBud Professional (1970)D10 8/4
Peavey Session 400 Limited/Nashville 1000/Zoom RFX-2000/Peavey EQ-215 Equalizer/Nashville 112 |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 12 Dec 2013 2:53 pm
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Bob, Pete, you can do corner slants with round bars and Stevens bars.
They're all over this one, twice in the first 30 seconds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC9MKCo8KL0
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 12 Dec 2013 3:08 pm
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| Thanks for posting that one, Lane. What a loss we all suffered nearly a year ago with Mike's passing. That old "8-String Swing" record is still one of my favorites! |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 13 Dec 2013 8:36 am
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I enjoyed that video Lane but the 3-string technique using the nose of a tapered bar to keep two strings at he same notes while the 3rd string moves up and/or down, as shown to me by Ray, is different than the slant technique shown in the vid you posted.
I would agree there's a lot of slant techniques out there and folks have used all types of bars/grips/instruments/string-spacing/etc. |
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Jeff Metz Jr.
From:
York, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2013 10:45 pm
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Does anyone else see a little face in the metal insert of Original Orangish bar?
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Mullen G2 SD10 , Lil Izzy Buffer, Goodrich 120 volume pedal, Boss DD-7, Peterson Strobo flip, Peavey Nashville 112 |
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