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Topic: Planning a good modulation |
Ollin Landers
From:
Willow Springs, NC
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Posted 12 Nov 2013 3:58 am |
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In my opinion, for what it's worth on a steel guitar it's just as important how you get somewhere as where your going. With that said I'd like to get some opinions on the best way to approach a modulation.
Some times I struggle with "how to get there". It just sounds so sterile to jump up a fret.
I know the best way to learn is to listen to some of the great players and try to imitate but I also like to have my own style and sound and not always just copy.
How do you approach it? What do you play before and after the key change?
Here is a great example, to say the least, of a smooth and musical modulation. 1:27 to 1:37.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob72wFLccLY
_________________
Zum SD-12 Black, Zum SD-12 Burly Elm Several B-Bender Tele's and a lot of other gear I can't play.
I spent half my money on gambling, alcohol and wild women. The other half I wasted. W.C. Fields |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 12 Nov 2013 5:05 am
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Going up a half step is hard to do gracefully: for a whole step, I either walk down three frets to the V of the new key, or just raise the root a half step (accomplishing the same thing).
I forgot about You Ought to Hear Me Cry; stepping up a half in the middle of the chorus:
My band (does it twice: the first at about 1:15)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eS7hFm_HRLY
Johnny Bush:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erNVy3pfF9s
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 12 Nov 2013 5:19 am
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Jumping up a fret is exactly what he does! Three bars in the existing key of of E, then up a fret to C7 going down in three inversions, and behold! - we're in F. I suppose what he's done is prepare the dominant of the new key, which doesn't have to be up a fret, it just happens to be in this case.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 12 Nov 2013 5:32 am
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Yes, but doing it in the middle of the chorus, and on the dominant rather than the root makes it a tad different.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 12 Nov 2013 5:46 am
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Jim Eanes and Allen Shelton (Sorry, B0b, it's ojnab): intro and instrumentals in G, all singing in F:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QyVm8hI_rM
The Seldom Scene did an a capella key change by changing which singer carried the melody (I believe the guy on III became the melody, the key going from Bb to D, with the guy on F going to F# and Mr Bb dropping to A: if you're curious, I can ask the bass player).
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Tommy Auldridge
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 12 Nov 2013 5:52 am The Bass Player?
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| Lane: You mean to tell us you know the bass player? Tommy....... |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 12 Nov 2013 6:04 am
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He's always been like a father to me...
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Dickie Whitley
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Posted 12 Nov 2013 6:31 am
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There are books on this subject (yeah, I know, "reading" is out of style theses days), including one I use by Max Reger titled "Modulation".
In just simplifying, you find common chords in the key you're in and the one you want to go to, and use those to get from point A to point B.
Yeah, I know, sometimes easier said than done. Just my 2 cents, YMMV. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 12 Nov 2013 6:40 am
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Usually its "go to the V of the new key".
When I was working with Tommy Cash, he had a song that changed from G to A. But to get to A, it was G, D, E7, A. He said Producer Billy Sherril came up with that when he was recording the song. |
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Dickie Whitley
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Posted 12 Nov 2013 6:45 am
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I don't disagree Jack, some folks just look at things differently. Depends on how simple or complicated you want to make it.
My apologies if I made it sound more complicated that it is. |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 12 Nov 2013 8:20 am
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
| Going up a half step is hard to do gracefully: |
There is a lot of modulation up by a half step in popular music. Going DOWN a half step gracefully would be harder.
| Dickie Whitley wrote: |
In just simplifying, you find common chords in the key you're in and the one you want to go to, and use those to get from point A to point B. |
In going from B to C for example, a common tone is B. Root of the tonic chord in the old key (B) becomes leading tone in the new key, and the singer can milk it for all it's worth. Usually the common chord in both keys here would be G7 (dominant 7th in C) aka its enhamonic equivalent (German 6th in B).
One of my favorite modulations from B to C is at the end of the development in the last movement of Mozart sym 41, to get back to C for the recap. His pivot chord is the German 6th in the NEW key of C (where the bass goes to A flat), which fools the ear because it sounds like its enharmonic equivalent G#7 in the old key of B, where it is V of II, and you expect it to resolve to II (C# minor). The violins enter with high C, and you think it is B# leading tone to C# but it is the root of the new key!
Listen at 8:18 here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiX3z_fOR5k
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 12 Nov 2013 8:46 am
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Earnest, few go up a half step gracefully .
I like the Mozart, but too often in pop music, they just step up from old I to new I. Neither graceful nor terribly artistic.
If I recall my terminology correctly, you can't call it a modulation if it lacks an intermediate step. Just a key change.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Ollin Landers
From:
Willow Springs, NC
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Posted 12 Nov 2013 9:37 am Follow Up
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I took a year of music theory in high school studying Paul Hindemith's book Traditional Harmony. I actually still have the book and looked it up.
Ernest described it very well in the more classical compositions.
I like the simpler model as Dickie and Jack described it.
So now the question gets asked again. So how do you approach this on the PSG?
"In my opinion, for what it's worth on a steel guitar it's just as important how you get somewhere as where your going."
For instance Key of E.
Lets say your leading phrase or lick finds you on 7th fret E strings 4,5,6 or 5,6,8.
I want to go from E to F so I'm targeting the V7 in F (C7) then the I (F). So how am I going to get there? I'm sure there's many ways to do it out of that position alone.
I could go up to fret 8 play a C Maj drop back to fret 6 release AB and drop string 5 a half for C7. Then slide down to fret 1 with BE. Then up to fret 4 with AF. Lots of crying and sliding.
or
I could drop back to fret 6 with the 1/2 tone lower holding that then lower string 6 a whole tone then up to fret 8 rocking AB.
I'm sure some of you guys can do it much better and more musically than I can. I was just looking for ideas.
_________________
Zum SD-12 Black, Zum SD-12 Burly Elm Several B-Bender Tele's and a lot of other gear I can't play.
I spent half my money on gambling, alcohol and wild women. The other half I wasted. W.C. Fields |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 12 Nov 2013 11:51 am
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E-C-F? At 0, 568 then drop the B to Bb and the G# to G, assuming you have those changes, then slide up to 1 with dropped Es (and maybe a whole tone drop of 6)
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 12 Nov 2013 4:27 pm
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
| If I recall my terminology correctly, you can't call it a modulation if it lacks an intermediate step. Just a key change. |
If I remember right, an "unprepared" modulation is one which lacks a "pivot chord". A "pivot chord" is a chord which has a function in both keys.
Here is my favorite unprepared modulation. I would like to write it out but notation is not adequate to convey it, so I signed up for soundcloud just to upload this:
https://soundcloud.com/ebovine/unprepared-modulation-up-a
I wish I could remember the name of the guy who invented this. It was some guy we did a demo for about 30 years ago. Clearly he is a genius. Even Mozart, with all his creativity, could never have come up with this. |
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Cal Sharp
From:
the farm in Kornfield Kounty, TN
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Posted 12 Nov 2013 4:42 pm
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I was involved in an unprepared modulation one time at Gabes's when the singer hollered "C#!" when he wanted me to play, and that's where half the band went.
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Dickie Whitley
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Posted 12 Nov 2013 4:48 pm
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Cal, you crack me up....lol....
Earnest, that definitely sounded "unprepared".... |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 12 Nov 2013 6:53 pm
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Earnest,
Great example but that ain't no country I know ! Yep !
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Bob |
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