Jazz Chords

Loyal McAvoy · From: California, USA

I don’t think there are “jazz chords.” If there are jazz chords then there must be country chords, classical chords, Dixieland chords, Tango chords, Cajun chords, etc. ad absurdum. There are most definitely altered chords, extended chords, or substitute chords, but a triad or any grouping of intervals stands on its own and has no style; they can be used in any context. I love steel because the instrument can play luscious harmonies that can be found on no other instrument, they are accepted and expected in country style playing, but, if a person plays the same voicings or resolutions on a six-string guitar, in the same context, one is looked at suspiciously as a “jazz” player.

A personal rant; I’m done talking now.

Thanks

Chris Gabriel · From: Oregon, USA

"2 kinds of music: good & bad."

That's an Ellington quote, or close to it.

Good point, chords are chords.

Portamento, baby.
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Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I think they are called jazz chords because the only place those weird chords show up are in jazz tunes.
Whenever I'm tabbing out such tunes I wind up doing a bunch of chord substitutions

Bill McCloskey · Posted 8 Nov 2013 8:53 am

When asked what the difference is between traditional jazz and bebop, Eddie Condon said "The difference is that they flat their 5ths and we drink ours."

Dustin Rhodes · From: Owasso OK

Its just a folksy term. No different than cowboy chords are what open chords are called on 6 string. If I get told by a band leader they want jazz or jazzier chords I can do something with that that. I'm not going to respond that any chord can be used in any context.

And you're somewhat ignoring the difference in history between the 2 instruments when you talk about steel and 6 string. Most steel playing has its roots in hawaiian and later western swing where those harmonies are perfectly expected. 6 string more often has its roots in blues, bluegrass, and folk music where those sort of harmonies are less common. Plenty of country guys throw in jazzy lines to their lead playing but when it comes to rhythm work if it does involve harmonically complex chords you can bet there is a western swing influence there.

Mike Neer · From: NJ

The beautiful thing about steel and really knowing your jazz harmony is that you can play just the extensions. Simple triads can give you so much--a simple D triad can translate into dozens of chords, e.g.:

F13b9
B-7
E7sus
EbmiMaj7b5
GMaj9
Ab7b9b5
BbMaj7#5

etc.

The mistake is thinking that you need to play the whole chord, when most of the time 3 notes will do.
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Kurt Kowalski · From: Kendall, NY USA

it is a wonderful thing to let the Bass player work....

ala: Jeff Newman

I agree Mike Whole Heartidly.

Believe me, even two note work well also when you have the rest of the band.

Remember Horn players do it with one note.

My opinion only, and I have been wrong many times.

my best,
-kk-

Dustin Rhodes · From: Owasso OK

Kurt bass is my #1 instrument. I would love if more players, especially key players, would learn that. Not only does it make things tighter and less cluttered when not everyone in the band is stepping on each other but it also frees everyone to do more interesting things.

Mike Neer · From: NJ

In fact, one of the beautiful things happening in Jazz over the last few decades is the spelling of chords as compound chords or slash chords where the chord is on the left of the slash and the bass note is on the right, for example, D7/Ab, which would otherwise be called Ab7b9b5. It makes it easier for us guitar playing types who only need to look at the stuff on the left. Wink

They're always dumbing it down for us guitarists, right Loyal?

A lot of jazz today is being written from that vantage point and, like I said, if you really know your harmony, the steel guitar fits in better with the direction of Jazz today than with Bebop, in my opinion. Swing was a perfect vehicle for steel guitar, but Swing is so yesterday. Smile

No offense, I love swing and have since my grandfather introduced me to it, and swing is a great gateway into jazz. But there is a whole new world out there. Fer chrissakes, Bill Frisell plays cowboy chords.
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David Matzenik · From: Cairns, on the Coral Sea

I'm with you, Loyal. A chord is a chord. I love all these harmonic possibilities.
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Bob Russell · From: Virginia, USA

They aren't "jazz chords" unless a jazz player plays 'em during the playing of some jazz. These chords were used by Stravinsky and Ravel and Debussy before jazz players began to use them.
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Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Did thy play E9th or C6th? Laughing

Bob Russell · From: Virginia, USA

Stravinsky took a shot at E9. Said it was too hard for him, but the bar came in handy for disputes with critics...
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Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Wise man!! Very Happy

Loyal McAvoy · From: California, USA

I would prefer the correct spelling of a chord chart; as in the example D7/Ab7, I would prefer a simple D7-5, and I decide where to put the flatted fifth, depending on where I'm at and where I'm going on the instrument. If it is in a big band context I might be more careful because it may mirror a line in the arrangement; in that case I would want to see a D7/Ab not D7/Ab7. If it is written D7/Ab7, that is seven different tones, and if your playing a guitar with only six strings, out of which you may only be in position to play three strings, there are a myriad of choices. The ear should be the final guide, after all we aren't splitting the atom when we play. Composers always over-compose.

Dom Franco · From: Beaverton, OR, 97007

To put in my 2 cents...
While there are technically no "Jazz Chords" there are some chords which are more closely identified with jazz and seem out of place in Country/Rock/Alternative etc.

I recently sat in with a blues group, where they played a lot of 7th chords... They were blown away when I added 9ths, 6ths (13ths)and the occasional flat 5th. The guitarists always ask "Man! how is that thing tuned?" Then their eyes start to glaze over when I explain all the intervals I have available.

I sometimes jam with country groups, oldies, folk or whatever. The diminished, augmented 5ths and "slash" chords are out of place in this setting. (Even if the original composition has them) because the players have "dumbed down the chords"

I also play at church on the worship team, and the chords are way simplified even when playing Hymns that were wonderfully harmonized. (I often use this as a "teaching" moment during rehearsals, having been a church music director for 30 plus years)

IMHO so called "jazz chords" would include, but not be limited to: Major 7ths, Minor 7ths, Minor 6ths, 6ths, Diminished, Half diminished, Aug5th, 9ths, 11ths and 13ths.

These will often seem out of place in most rock, bluegrass, contemporary Christian, Alternative etc. music
Dom
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Mike Neer · From: NJ

Like was said above, chords are chords. The music has to be tolerant of extended chords, but that is a song-by-song thing, not genre. Tony Rice introduced the bluegrass audience to plenty of extended chords. Just listen to his version of Wayfaring Stranger.

The average musician probably doesn't know how to deal with these harmonies, but they've no doubt heard them, especially in Gospel music and Pop.
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Dom Franco · From: Beaverton, OR, 97007

It is almost impossible to define "Jazz" let alone "Jazz Chords"

In this case perhaps perception is reality...
If someone thinks it sounds Jazzy then it is!

How would you define "Jazz"... Tempo? Riffs? Chords? Breaking it down to solos? Improvisation?

I can't define Jazz, but to me some chords sound Jazzy, and I am not alone. Wink

Dom
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Scott Thomas · Posted 10 Nov 2013 5:22 pm

I have a great chord practice and theory book by Arnie Berle called "Chord and Progressions for Jazz and Popular Guitar". In it, he makes a distinction between open chords (what some call cowboy or folk chords), barre chords (which he says are favored by rock guitarists) and jazz chords (he focuses on 4 note voicings, and Freddy Green-style 3 and 2 note voicings).

Nowhere does he say the chord forms are exclusive to any musical genre or style, but he obviously recognizes that rock uses more barre chords than jazz, and jazz in turn has a tradition of four note voicings for comping and chord melody.

So I just see these as terms of convenience, but of course musically speaking, chords are just chords.

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