REVISIT AND REHASH THE E9th CHROMATIC TUNING

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Additional information about the chromatic note locations, of the E9th chromatic tuning, could provide interesting reading material, particularly, an accurate account of credits, and the reason for its stability. It would be fun to absorb the creative tuning as it moved through the period of trial and error, step-by-step, and the culmination of its accepted arrangement of notes.

Bill H.

Bill Crook · From: Goodlettsville, TN , Spending my kid's inheritance

??????????????.............

Johan Jansen · From: Europe

Bill,
you mean the whole story about the development of the E9 tuning?
Yes, would make a great thread!
Johan

William Peters · From: Effort, Pennsylvania, USA

Bill,

Great idea. I'll help start it off.

Once upon a time, long long ago, the E string was invented by a little known luthier, Ferrous Metallicus.......

No seriously, I would like to know the history.

Bill

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

The way I understand it, Jimmy Day added the middle E string, Mooney added the high G#, and Big E added the chromatics, first in the 9-10 position, later moving them to 1-2.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Herb S.,

Once the E9th chromatic tuning was settled upon, by the super pickers, it went on, and proved to be the most enduring set-up, when used in combination, with 3 on the floor, and 4 "knees". You may recall your first experience of listening to the "adapted" tuning, whereby the 3rd string dominated the first brush across the strings. In the first introduction, it sounds hodgepodge, only to resolve its merits through the use of pedals and knee levers.

One of the relevant questions concerning this thread, would be to ask, which of the great influences, who are Buddy Emmons' contemporaries, contributed to his contributions in arriving at the steadfast E9 Chromatic tuning?

Bill H.

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 04 August 2003 at 07:23 AM.]

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 04 August 2003 at 08:08 AM.]

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Search previous Forum posts. It's all there, with commentary by Buddy, Paul, and others. Why rehash?

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Larry B.,

Because there have been many new ideas, which have formulated, since those earlier reports were made public knowledge, that could easily adapt to just about any reasonable tuning, bar none. Would you be willing to reveal your 9th tuning setup, and any new changes that you've made recently? Or is your statement a prelude to a wishy-washy conclusion that all articles of interest have been covered concerning the established E9th chromatic tuning?

Bill H.

Jeff A. Smith · From: Angola,Ind. U.S.A.

Carl West · From: La Habra, CA, USA (deceased)

Some years ago steel players didn't want to share tunings and set-ups with anyone. There were exceptions to that of course. Today we share set-ups left and right. Who cares what you use. If you like a certain thing,lick, special knee hook up and someone else hears it and likes it,then why not share it.
E9th /C6th ain't no dark secret. We all use it one way or another. Nothing wrong with sharing IMHO !

Carl West
Emmons LaGrande

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Carl W.,

I purchased Winnie Winston's "Bible" in 1980, which contained many of the earliest setups of the masters in and around Nashville, TN
and the Texas/California fleet-fingered heroes of the steel guitar. Sharing is a common bond amongst steel guitarists. Those who share their knowledge, and are happy to do so, invariably are the very best in steel guitar savvy. This is a rare form of confidence in ones own musical ability, that is, to be far removed from any preconceived notions, that sharing knowledge is not proper or fitting. It's a tradition, that will always be first, and foremost in steel guitar circles.

Bill H.

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 04 August 2003 at 02:40 PM.]

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Bill,
I have no clue where you ever got the idea I was not sharing anything. My tuning, changes, and pictures of my instruments have been public knowledge on the web for more than five years. Just click on the links below if you're really interested.

I agree with Jeff that the objective seemed to have changed from history to progress, mid-stream in the thread and am a bit mystified how you could imply it was I who was being wishy washy.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Larry B.,

Wishy-washy is a harmless term that lacks the prominence of subtle terminology. It shouldn't offend a single soul. A simple explanation in ones own words, stating how you view the E9th chromatic tuning, would satisfy my expectations of obtaining answers from a fellow steel guitarist. I don't appreciate anyone assuming that I'm not aware of past articles written in magazines that were not supported sufficiently to remain intact. Please don't remind me of the forum articles. I have trusted friends who have kept me in touch with exceptional entries.

Bill H.

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

I was assuming nothing, Bill. I was merely reminding you and any other readers that the genesis of the E9 tuning, chromatic strings, and changes have been thoroughly reviewed by many of those who were responsible for the innovations.
99% of those innovations long predate this forum, therefore, what's here is what there is.

It's been said that, at one time or other, Jimmie Crawford has raised and lowered every string on the E9 tuning to its mechanical capability, and I believe that.

Not sure what you are/were looking for, but that's not unusual.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Carl West · From: La Habra, CA, USA (deceased)

MERCY . . . Now calm down steel pickers.

Carl West

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Larry B.,

An old friend drove many miles to visit with me the other day, and I promised him that I would call upon members of the STEEL GUITAR FORUM to try to get the answer to his question. He had packed his double neck EMMONS away for 12 years in a closet. He recently set it up after dismantling all the moving parts, and cleaned them thoroughly. He replaced all springs. I wish you could have been here to hear him play, and to see the instrument. It appears to be new. He plays both necks very well. You wouldn't believe your ears, to hear him play "Flint Hill Special". We enjoyed sweet corn, and sliced tomatoes between breaks of our jam. I promised to post a thread concerning the E9th chromatic tuning, when he questioned me about the original idea behind the tuning. That is, the placement of the chromatic strings in the order that they are found in today. We've become very good friends since the visit, and we both regret not getting together long ago.
Bill H.

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Bill,
You may want to print out or have him access the following: http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/002738.html

In that thread, Carl Dixon gives an excellent account of the evolution of the chromatic strings and their placement and Buddy Emmons subsequently validates and adds further information to Carl's thorough treatment. I'm sure your friend's hunger for knowledge will be satiated.

Yes, there are people (Pete Burak is one that comes to mind) who place the chromatic strings in order of pitch and those who use notes other than F# and D#, but the standard tuning is pretty much as it has been for several decades.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Larry B.,

Larry, thank you for guiding me to the very special post. Rest easy, and please accept my apologies for using a poor choice of words in my replies. Isn't Carl Dixon a National Treasure? He is one who can write freely, with such ease.

Bill H.

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 05 August 2003 at 05:10 AM.]

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Wishy-wash is somewhat synonymous with indecisive.
So I really don't see that fitting here.
Since most everyone here is pretty much decisive,
when not being divicive.

This is as good a place as any to continue from the old E9 threads, and see what new ideas pop up. The history is still being written, me thinks.

As I understand it, some of the early players, and in particularly the recording players, did for short periods guard their inovations; such as an unusual pull, or an unusual new tuning.

So that for the tour after a record, with a new sound,
they were the only ones getting that sound.
But knowing it would spread to other players in the near future.
This for the artist managers was good business sense.

And eventually the ideas either fell from use or became standards.

Now the general power of the instruments has gotten so high, and available to many,
it is now back to playing technique, rather than innovative pulls, to stand above the crowd.

Hense the diminished fear of giving away your new trick. Only one person I have asked, never sent me their copedent. He shall rest un-named, maybe he was just busy.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 04 August 2003 at 04:20 PM.]

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

David D.,

Playing steel guitar in a band that has a good following, and one that can produce booking dates from January to December is the bottom line. To be offered 6 playing gigs in as many days, by 6 different groups, is something to howl about. To make the grade to those high standards, one must first acquaint himself/herself with diversities that are directly related to the "Nashville tuning", and the proper placement of string pulls, and lowering effects. Instrumentally, there appears to be a magnetic pull to the C6th tuning whenever the spotlight shifts from vocalizing to "Let's see what your steel guitarist can do". This thread is not about the C6th tuning. Tasty, cry in your beer, trebly crying steel is where you will find me. Smack dab on the E9th chromatic tuning. I once called a highly respected teacher in the south to question him about pedal technique. He replied simply, " We don't do it that way". Little did he realize, that I would go about unaffected by that one disdainful comment. I now have changes "incorporated" with the E9th that have the potential to bewilder, or smolder that cock of the walk individual. I bounced back with the new front mounted "UPRIGHT FRETBOARD", The "LUCKY 7". plus 2 "SHORT PEDALS", mounted between the AB pedals, plus the "TOMMY PEDAL", named after the person who mailed it to me as a gift. I spent a good deal of time honing out the stubborn alloy to receive a half inch shaft. I decided to name it, because of the battle it presented, to put it to good use. Needless to say, oversight is commonplace, whenever stagnancy becomes entrenched in a die-hard approach to new and better ways of managing a universally accepted tuning, such as the E9th chromatic.

Bill H.

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 05 August 2003 at 09:28 AM.]

John McGann · From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

Bill- what's your setup?

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

There have been numerous threads here in the past on the development of the present-day E9th tuning. Anyone who desires knowledge in this area need only to use the "Search" function. Now, I may be the only one who feels this way, but I believe that further development of this tuning will result in few advantages to the average player. Many players are wont to experiment and try new things, and there was a time when this was indeed necessary. Now, however, I feel that further "development" (additions or changes to what is already in common use) will do little towards improving us as musicians.

The presently used tuning (and it's usual changes) is quite capable of playing just about anything. The biggest impediment facing players, in my very humble opinion, is the development of further "intricacies" that will serve only to complicate things for the vast majority. Why do we use this tuning? To put it simply...it works! Why have we incorporated the vast majority of standard changes? They also work!

Most pros are content with 4 floor pedals on this tuning, and 5 or 6 knee levers. (Some use even fewer.) There are, of course, players (novices and pros alike) that have more. (Good for them!) It is my personal observation, however, that they do not necessarily play any more, or any better, then then those who do not. What does this say to you? I think the biggest problem is with the players, themselves, and not with the capabilities of the presently used tuning layout and changes.

Am I saying we should stop "rethinking" the tuning and it's changes, and just learn to play it as it is...to stop thinking about blaming the tuning and pedals for all our own personal inadequacies?

Yes, exactly.

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

John M.,

I like the CBA pedal arrangement better than the Emmons ABC. I'm not sure if any forum members have done studies relating to physiological differences that come into play (pardon the pun) when the legs are called upon to swing in or out. There is a distinct difference that is tied in with early fatigue and is associated with tipping the foot to the right. Curling the foot to the left promotes a longer sustained period of experiencing less fatigue. (I M H O) My 4th and 8th string lowers, are LkL, 4th and 8th string raises, LKR. The 1st is pulled up a full tone, and the 2nd a half step, while the 7th is raised one half step by a LKV. I use finger stretch and knee pressure for the 1st half tone raise. My right knee is my crutch to access minors, and sevenths. I have suggested many times to others who dance on and off the "C" pedal, to try raising 4th and 8th strings a full tone on the RKL. I've never been without it. Most standard setups do not include the 8th string raise. I have a ball with the E to F# raises, played off the right knee. It is independent of the usual "A" pedal combination, or "C" pedal. The RKR has a magnificent half tone stop on the 2nd string. A full tone lower of my 2nd string is controlled by the #1 pedal. The # 1 pedal also raises the 5th a full tone, and the 3rd one half tone. It works well with Ray Price intros, when used in combination with 4th and 8th string raises or lowers. #2 and #3 pedals are standard Jimmy Day, while pedal #4 lowers the 9th string one half tone. This change is used in combination with the "A" pedal, and E to F raises. The setup is most effective if the 4 and 5 string chords are manageable. Most players stick to tradition, and it's understandable. I use no steel picks, and a customized thumb pick has been my preferred method for many years. I didn't explain the newly developed "Short Pedals" that are located between the A B pedals. They lower the 5th and 6th strings two half tones, and are a welcome addition to my setup. I use a 3rd string shock reducer called the "LUCKY 7", and two "GOLOS" which are independent of the changer. Experimentation will at times produce good results.

Bill H.

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 05 August 2003 at 06:26 PM.]

[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 06 August 2003 at 03:36 AM.]

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

John M.,

Strings 1 through 10 affected by mechanical changes:

1. + +
2. - - +
3. +
4. - + +
5. - - + +
6. - - +
7. +
8. - + +
9. -
10. + +

5 knee levers
6 floor pedals (Clustered)

Each denotation represents 1/2 tone.

Bill H.

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Donny H.,

"Personal inadequacies"? Those two words are so loaded with tangential
subterfuge, that I must respond by simply stating, thanks a lot. I thrive on "personal inadequacies".
Perfection is a rare bird. I'm not too concerned with those who grasp for set patterns, or have a propensity to follow the leader. There is a saying that reads - "Between a rock and a hard place".
I've been there, done that, etc.
One trip into that nether land, will adequately prepare those who have been there, to "Look before they leap". Don't push or shove, allow me to decide where my shoes will trod.

Bill H.

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