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Topic: If all P/P's suddenly vanished........... |
Steven Welborn
From:
Ojai,CA USA
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Posted 8 Aug 2003 8:53 am |
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which would you consider to best approximate the p/p sound? I'm posting this ? for a good friend who wants to upgrade from his old MSA(which sounds pretty dam good actually when HE's playing it) to a more modern guitar for mechanics and sound. He likes the sound of my p/p a lot and he's aiming in that direction.
Candidates which come to my mind, from hear say mostly, would be :
Emmons LeGrand ( 3 ?)
Carter
Zum
Fessenden
Falawka
others?
Another way to approach this might be, on a scale of 1 to 10, which sounds CLOSEST to the the sound were talk'n about. And please note:
NOT which sounds BETTER, which is of course a subjective and personal thing.
For example, I would not list a Mullen, because it's more in the direction of a classic Shobud vane, which is a great sound. just a different direction thats all.
My steel shopping buddy is just beginning to get on the net... so thanks for your responses.[This message was edited by Steven Welborn on 08 August 2003 at 09:56 AM.] |
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Jim Eaton
From:
Santa Susana, Ca
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Posted 8 Aug 2003 9:11 am
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My second guitar behind my 75PP is a Fessy.
JE:-)> |
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Jim Smith
From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
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Posted 8 Aug 2003 9:12 am
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Yep, Fessenden for me too! 
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Jim Smith jimsmith94@comcast.net
-=Dekley D-12 10&12=-
-=Fessenden D-12 9&9=-
-=Emmons D-12 push pull 9&4 (soon to be 9&9)=-
Stereo Steel rig w/Boss GX-700
IVL SteelRider w/JV-880
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Jerry Roller
From:
Van Buren, Arkansas USA
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Posted 8 Aug 2003 9:17 am
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Emmons LeGrande III with 19K single coils or
Jerry Wallace Truetones. I have a LeGrande III with 19K Emmons pickups and it is very close to the mid 70' and 80's push pulls. I don't think anything is going to match the 60's push pull.
Jerry Roller |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 8 Aug 2003 9:20 am
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| Herby Wallace gets a tone from his Mullen that reminds me of the Emmons push-pull. |
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John Cox
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 8 Aug 2003 9:22 am
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Emmons LeGrande3, It's a no brainer!
J.C. |
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Jeff Lampert
From:
queens, new york city
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Posted 8 Aug 2003 9:29 am
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| He better listen in person to whatever guitar he's interested in before he buys. He hears an exact sound in his head, and he may find that close is not good enough. |
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joe long
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 8 Aug 2003 9:35 am
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| I'll dito the LaGrand II or III. I have 2 p/p's and they sound great, but my III's come very close to the p/p sound. |
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Gary Walker
From:
Morro Bay, CA
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Posted 8 Aug 2003 10:07 am
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| Bobby, Larry Petree said the same thing about Herby's Mullen. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 8 Aug 2003 1:23 pm
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| i've got p/p's and a zum...i love them all....but i just have to say ('cause i don't see it mentioned often) that the best sounding steel i ever played straight out of the box was jim gray's thomas...'course his jch , carter, and new mullen, not to mention his old emmons' and even his old white msa sounded good, too! you know whut i'm sayin'... |
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Carson Leighton
From:
N.B. Canada
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Posted 8 Aug 2003 2:51 pm
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| My Carter with an E-66 pick-up on the E9th neck sounds a lot like my 72 P/P Emmons.........Carson |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 8 Aug 2003 2:54 pm
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Before I start, let's not forget, there was an awful lot of good steel played before the Emmon's even came about!
Maybe I'm wrong, but the old Emmons' sound seems to be a little dated now.  Piercing highs and thin-tight bass have given way to fuller (albeit sometimes "flatter") sounds. Don't get rambunctious on me...I loved that "Touch My Heart" stuff too! They were the guitar to have from the mid '60s to the early '70s.
Things change, though. People's tastes change, too. Time was when 90% of the top steelers played Emmons. Now, I think it's way less than 50%. Let's face it, all the "big dogs" today can play anything they want...there's old Emmons' out there, and a lot of the newer ones, too. They could buy an old classic push-pull, have it restored (adding some more levers), and play that "old Emmons sound" 'til the cows come home (if they wanted to).. Or they can afford the best that Emmons makes now, and could all be playin' LeGrandes.
But that ain't happenin', is it???
(Hey, don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger!  ) |
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Frank Parish
From:
Nashville,Tn. USA
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Posted 8 Aug 2003 3:53 pm
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I still think the Emmons p/p's have the best tone I've heard to date. I spent a bunch of money switching to an all-pull Derby that flat didn't cut it. All you Derby owners can flame me if you want but that same Derby I had is currently on it's 5th owner and it's a 98 model so that should tell you something. That's not to say all Derbys are bad but that one didn't work for me. I really think that the reason the p/p guys switched was because the p/p's are just a pain to work on and you can't switch the set-up around like you can on an all-pull. It's so nice to be able to change your set-up on the break with a newer all-pull guitar. I've heard a few guitars sound pretty acceptable if I didn't have a p/p to play. One would be the older Shot Jackson built Sho-Buds. I heard a Zum I thought had great tone once. I've heard several Legrandes both newer and older that had great tone. Buddy Emmons tone was exceptional last summer when he played at a local club here and it was a Legrande of some vintage. The Marrs Sho-Bud conversions have exceptional tone with that changer system of his that has the fingers touch the body when engaged. The same changer is on the Marrs guitars too. Just this week a friend of mine bought a new Carter with the TW pick-ups and he's reporting to me the similarities to his 70's Emmons p/p. He's saying the sustain is about the same even above the 15th fret.
As soon as he took it out of the box he strummed it and stuck his ear to the body and so did I. Not bad. I haven't got to play it yet but I think he's going to bring it out to my gig one night and we can play his Carter and my 66 Emmons side by side to do a fair comparison. If that Carter can stack up with my old Emmons, my next guitar will be the Carter. He's out on a road date right now and I don't know if he took the Carter or the Emmons but I'll be hearing more about it this week I suspect.[This message was edited by Frank Parish on 08 August 2003 at 04:57 PM.] |
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John Macy
From:
Rockport TX/Denver CO
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Posted 8 Aug 2003 4:21 pm
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Nice post, Donny, and I agree. Once I got my two Fessendens, my push/pull never saw the light of day. I have listened to lots of stuff I recorded with the P/P's--sounds great, but I love what I am getting now.
As for ease of change, I am a pretty fair P/P mechanic (was an Emmons dealer for many years, and learned from the best, Jimmie Crawford), so that has never been an issue for me. My current tone is what I heard in my head for years and never got (though I do love the Emmons sound) from either of my P/P's.
By the way, Jeff Peterson is currently restoring my '70 Fatback, and I intend on keeping it--might even play it on occasion... The other one is in the process of running away from home and coming back as a JCH  .[This message was edited by John Macy on 08 August 2003 at 05:27 PM.] |
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Franklin
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Posted 8 Aug 2003 5:45 pm
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| Paul [This message was edited by Franklin on 08 August 2003 at 06:47 PM.] |
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Steven Welborn
From:
Ojai,CA USA
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Posted 8 Aug 2003 6:29 pm
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| Good point Donny and I kindof agree too. Though I cant imagine I would ever get tired of that ear gratifying ring of an early p/p. Kind of like singers with gifted voices. It doesnt matter whether theyre singing today or 100 years ago. they had a unique gift and its still thrilling to hear it. I guess theres always something new around the corner. Tommy W. gets a very thrilling sound with his Derby. and its different. If I could afford more toys, I would go for variety. I'm real currious about these Fessy's. I followed threds on em way back. They sure are pretty. Love to hear one.If I recall, theyre fairly affordable too. [This message was edited by Steven Welborn on 14 August 2003 at 12:12 AM.] |
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Kenny Forbess
From:
peckerwood point, w. tn.
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Posted 8 Aug 2003 6:36 pm
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WOW,
I've never heard Paul elaborate ,or make any kind of comments as far as tone or quality about any Brand of guitar,"good or bad", includeing his own.
I for one, would have loved to have seen the post before he edited it.
he's such a class act, and he has nothing to prove.
Go Paul,
Kenny
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66 Emmons D-10 bolt-on
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Steven Welborn
From:
Ojai,CA USA
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Posted 8 Aug 2003 6:44 pm
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| Yea, me too. BTW, im not just saying this, but I was going to include a Franklin in the list at top but I new it was out of my friends reach pocket bookwise. I know there known to be one of the most fabulous steels ever built on all points if you can affordem. Dont ever see them used for sale either. |
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 8 Aug 2003 7:46 pm
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can anything sound better than this...nah ...close to this...nah ,
there will always be a p/p guitars around,as long as there are people who love them and take care of them.
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Frank Parish
From:
Nashville,Tn. USA
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Posted 8 Aug 2003 9:46 pm
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| I've heard good stuff about the Fessys but haven't played one I thought was quite there yet. I would add to my list above an EMCI and Big John Becthel had a very good sounding Franklin I played a few years back. He's since got another I haven't heard or played. I had a 98 Legrande II I played for a couple of years and finally settled on the BL-710 pick-ups to get what I thought was the most out of it. It was a very good sounding ax but I jumped at the chance to trade for the old Emmons I'm playing now and the tone is a lot better on the older guitar with the original single pick-ups. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 9 Aug 2003 12:47 am
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Doesn't Buddy Emmons has a couple of P/Ps lying around at the house? I know he doesn't get out to play much these days but, when he does, he takes one or other of his LeGrande IIIs with him.
Why is that, I wonder?
RR[This message was edited by Roger Rettig on 09 August 2003 at 01:50 AM.] |
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Bill Moore
From:
Manchester, Michigan
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Posted 9 Aug 2003 4:14 am
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I haven't owned a lot of guitars, but I've had a BMI, MSA, 2 Carters, now I have a Remington 12 string and an '81 p/p. To me, the Emmons sound is not the high pitch mentioned above, every guitar I've owned seemed to have more than enough highs. What I like about the my Emmons is the even quality of the sound, along with the distinctive mid range growl that I hear. I think the single coil pickups have something to do with it too. I got a TrueTone pickup for my Remington, to replace the George L, and it sounds good too. Not exactly like the Emmons, but it has some of the same qualities. So, if I were trying to get the Emmons sound on a different guitar, the first thing I would do is get one of Jerry Wallace's pickups. Just my 2 cents.
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Bill Moore...
my steel guitar web page
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Johan Jansen
From:
Europe
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Posted 9 Aug 2003 4:25 am
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If I had a all pull guitar that should sound like an Emmons push-pull, I would get rid of it asap. because that prooves to me that it has no own caracter and sound.
A Derby must sound like a Derby, a Fessy like a Fessy , a Bud like a Bud and a Franklin like a Franklin. That's the way I like it.
From a very happy Derby owner,
Johan
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 Click on the pic!
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Dennis Detweiler
From:
Solon, Iowa, US
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Posted 9 Aug 2003 5:35 am
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If he's shopping for a guitar, I would suggest attending the convention and sitting down and playing each guitar brand two or three times. Since each player's right hand will deliver a different touch and tone, your prefered tone may sound better to you on a selected brand of guitar than someone else's. I went through this process in 1983 and I'm still playing my choice.
I would never buy a new or used car by having someone else test drive it.
Dennis |
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Jay Ganz
From:
Out Behind The Barn
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Posted 9 Aug 2003 6:05 am
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If all of them vanished, I'd figure
somebody just broke into my house!!!
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My new MP3.com page
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