U-12 Copedent

Jean-Sebastien Gauthier · From: Quebec, Canada

Hi, I will buy my first U-12 pedal steel and I try to figure out a copedent that I will like. Im more a C6 lap steel player so Im used to have the note in order so I try to make a E9 tuning that I will easily use on the B6 mode and eventually mix the 2 together to be in real uni mode.

I came with that and would really appreciated your inputs. thanks!

Matthew Beall · From: Virginia, USA

Hello Jean,
I'm a fairly new U12 player and thought I'd offer a comment re your copedant suggestion. First, I'm impressed that you've obviously put some serious thought into this! I'd like to suggest that you adapt to the standard setup instead of inventing your own. There are several reasons for this, but basically the standard setup evolved over a long period of time and it makes a lot sense for very practical, musical reasons. I respect using your brain and coming up with your own solution, but others have gone down this road and again, the standard U12 setup is remarkably flexible. For instance, if you want to use tab at any point, you can use tab for either C6 or E9 with some very easy adjustments. And there are SO MANY good changes right under your hands, feet and knees. Just my two cents worth, and good luck.

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

Assuming that you are going to be using a .014 for your 3rd string E, that will be a particularly long throw for that lever to lower it to a D and I see a potential problem there depending on the guitar. Good luck. While new setups are always intriguing- God knows I've tried a ton of them, it seems that I always seem to return to the std ones- 60 years or so tends to weed out the things that don't work as well- there truly is genius in the current standard setups but I applaud your thinking Smile

.

Jean-Sebastien Gauthier · From: Quebec, Canada

Thanks guys. So what is the standard setup?

Is this is standard?

Matthew Beall · From: Virginia, USA

Here; this is a very common configuration. There are minor variations that come up.

http://williamsguitarcompany.com/E9_B6_Universal_Tuning.htm

Jean-Sebastien Gauthier · From: Quebec, Canada

ok thanks, look good

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

One of the big problems with U-12 tunings is the large gap between E and B. You have no D string in the middle, and no D# string at the top.

Low F# on string 10 is a useful note for E9, but it may be wasteful to use one of your 12 strings just for that note. (I have a knee lever for low F# on my E9 and I use it a lot. You could use fifth knee lever !)

Most U-12 players would have a high D# or C# string instead of a low F# string. The range between your 4th string E and your 5th string B is good for melodic playing, and another string in that range gives you many more options. But that would require a lot of work under the guitar.

In that range, I like your idea of lowering the 4th string to D (like Julian Tharpe), but your LKR will be very stiff. I expect you will disconnect the raise on string 2 (F# to G#) to make it easier. There are so many ways to handle those E strings on a U-12 that has no D string in the middle. For example, you may want to play chords with D in the middle and E on top.

Jean-Sebastien Gauthier · From: Quebec, Canada

Yes I should probably choose a standard tuning, I will find out why people prefer it like that with time. thanks for the inputs!

The Williams's setup make lots of sense to me.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I would go with an open tuning that looks more like this:

1-D#
2-G#
3-F#
3-E
5-B
6-G#
7-F#
8-E
9-B
10-G#
11-E
12-B

Jean-Sebastien Gauthier · From: Quebec, Canada

So Pete you would keep the standard changes but the F# and G# in order? I tought about this and it make a lot of sense to me. I wounder why the standard E9 have the high strings mix order like that?

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Yes, you could add the standard 7x5 Williams S12U setup to this open tuning.

Jean-Sebastien Gauthier · From: Quebec, Canada

good! so I got that:

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I'll have more input later, but I don't think I'm wild about 1&2 moving in opposition. If you're taking 1 to G#, I'd raise 2 to E. I have that raise on P0, to the left of A, both on my D-10 and my Uni.
If you plan to play mostly stuff from the B6 pockets, you might think of having 4 and 8 rest at D#,with levers taking them to E and F.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Having read the rest of the thread, I like your last, although I would add the F#/D# raise on P1, moving the rest down one slot
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I could gig with that last setup you posted no problem.
Some thoughts given that you are primarily a 6th player coming from a non-pedal background...
I'd say "less is more" with regard to number of pedals/levers.

I personally would probably delete the LKR (making it a 7x4 with no obstruction to pedals 4-7).

I would add string-12 lowering from B to A on the A-pedal (gives a huge open A6 across strings 12-2).

I would also add string-3 F# to G on P5 (a fairly common C6th change, it completes the high end of the P5+P6 diminished chord).

I would also be sure to get a tune-able split on string-5 so you can get C#, C, B, Bb all individually tune-able.

Having played in Swing bands in B6th all night long, I personnally recommend getting a Lever-Lock to lock into the 6th tuning for extended periods of time.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I dunno, Pete. I love that 6th string drop. I'd just learn to duck under it, or place the left kneez farther to to the right.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

fwiw, I've been gigging since the late 70's without the string-6 G# to F#, and no one has ever mentioned it... 'not a must-have for S12U, imo.
But I've been on S12U that whole time.

I think it's more of a D10'ers thing for E9th intensive players.
This guy's a non-pedal 6th player looking to add pedals to his 6th and get into a little E9th playing if I'm reading it right.

Jean-Sebastien Gauthier · From: Quebec, Canada

Thanks a lot for the suggestion Pete, I didn't know what to do with this change anyway!

You are reading right Pete, I want to play swing but be able to play some E9 classic sound when need. A locking knee would be very usefull, I have a Fender 8 strings pedal steel that is tune to E9/B6 and when I play only hawaiian and swing I tuned the Es to Eb. I choose the E9/B6 instead of B6/E9 because I can have the C pedal and I use a lot more the pedal on E9 mode so its easier to not have a lever to hold.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Yeah, You definitely don't want to have to hold a lever enguaged the whole time you're playing E9th.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

You're right, Pete. If that change isn't part of your vocabulary, I wouldn't rush to add it.
It plays a large role in mine, though, and if I had to give up one of the 5 levers, I'd keep it and drop the F lever.
On the Uni, I put a half stop on it, because I drop my C6 A strings on a lever (4 to G#, 8 to G)
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Jean-Sebastien Gauthier · From: Quebec, Canada

Hi guys, from your inputs and my own view of things I came with this copedent. I hope its a good one, any of you comments is welcome!

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I'd raise 12 to C# with P4, it's a part of the traditional P5.
The traditional conundrum on P5, your P4, remains. There arr several common combos that usually end up meaning SOMETHING gets 2 footed. (The following are YOUR numbers rather than the traditional ones) 4&5, 5&6, 4&6 and 4&7 all see standard use.
I solve it by putting your P4 on a knee. But Emmons and most others just use 2 feet on the pedals.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Here's my setup. The W is the infamous wrist lever.

Having the 5th string lower there instead of a vertical is yielding some unexpected benefits. I'm currently working on something where I play off the first and seconds strings and lower the 5th as the 3rd of the chord.

_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin

Jean-Sebastien Gauthier · From: Quebec, Canada

Good Lane, I will add the C# raise on P4. Thanks a lot for the infos about classic change. Maybe I can put this one on LKR and put something different on P4?

Mike, your setup and your music are very interesting!

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I like that, effectively putting P6 on a knee, also solving the Missing D dilemma on the E9th pockets, and eliminating the 2Foot by moving 7.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

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