Thoughts on RKL Knee Lever - Lower 5th, or Lower 6th?

Sean Borton · From: Winnipeg Manitoba, Canada

I've played guitar for 35+ years but I am relatively new to pedal steel and want some thoughts on my RKL knee lever.

I have 4 levers on my steel, and the RKL currently lowers the 5th string B > Bb. I rarely use this so I am considering changing it to lower the 6th string G# > F#. I've tried it and it works fine, but I'm not sure of what I am losing (or gaining) by going this route.

If you had to choose between those two options, which one would you choose, and why?

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

I'd keep the 5th string flat change. I use this for split tuning a lot and also to get a 7-5 chord. My second choice would be to use it to RAISE the 7th string a whole tone. This would give you many of the same changes as lower the 6th string a whole tone but also add many other possibilities.

See "Tab 657 - Versatile turnaround featuring E9th 7th string whole tone raise and 9th string lower and split tuning!" linked below for a few examples of the 7th string raise and split tuning for the 5th string. Note that you could use the knee lever for raising the 7th string and just use a half A pedal press to get the 1/2 tone split tuning raise on the 5th string.

http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Tab/Tab21.html

Greg

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I believe in leaving things alone til you can articulate what you are missing.
I'd rather drop 6 than 5, but you're not me.
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Sean Borton · From: Winnipeg Manitoba, Canada

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

I would keep the 5st lower. I use it all the time. Gives you 5 whole steps in a row and opens up tons of scale and chord options. Plus it makes the tricky part of the "together again" solo super easy.

The 6 whole step lower give you a way to do the corn squeeze (pushing pedal A into the pedals down chord) in the no pedals position. It is a nice sound. Some players like having more of those whole step pulls available.

I could live without either one of those changes but I would really miss the 5 lower.
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Atom Schmitt · From: Nashville, TN

I'd rather drop the 6, but even more importantly I can't quite live without the raising of the 1. I was also recently introduced to the idea that a lot of people do with it where it also raises the 2 string to an E, and I can see a zillion or so ways I'd use that too.

But, it's all a matter of personal taste. There are certain songs my band covers - namely Garth stuff like That Summer, that sort of rely on that 1 string raise for the opening lick. I could play it elsewhere and maybe use a different change to bend in and out of that enharmonic note, but I'd just as soon play it as it was probably originally recorded.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Why? I use the 6 drop as both an inverse A pedal and as a handy melodic stepwise motion device, and it serves me well. The 5 drop gets used a bit less, and its absence can be worked around, usually by dropping a fret and adding the F lever at the same time: the 5 drop is all over the Charley Pride Panther Hall album and Lloyd didn't have it on his guitar.
In fact, if I were to have only 3&4 (I have 4&5 on my E9th neck), I would lose both the 5 drop and the half tone raise of 1 (but keeping the whole tone raise of 1/half tone raise of 2, combining it with the 6 drop).

That said, you don't need the whole tone raise of 1, I pulled it with my ring finger for a year before changing my copedent (I moved the pedals over a slot and put the 1&2 raises on P1)
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Atom Schmitt · From: Nashville, TN

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Atom, the Emmons standard in the 70s/early 80s (and also in the Buddy Emmons instructional materials) had a knee that raised 1 to G and dropped 6 to F#.
My Marlen had it (first guitar I owned, as did my Emmons, and Zum and both MSAs.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Atom Schmitt · From: Nashville, TN

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

May I recommend a proper half stop instead of using the "feel stop" of picking up the 2nd string when 1 hits G?
I like the sound of 1 moving twice as fast as 2 (kinda like a bar slant or mashing A and B together), and you'd lose that if you got there with pull timing.
My Zum and MSA (and my beastly Bud, when complete) all had both G and G#/E changes, but on separate pedals/knees.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

I'd drop the F# to G# on RKL, it's good for a lick, it's good for a 1 chord by adding your E to Eb, you can also get a 1 min if you have a feel stop on your F# to G#. You can always add a vertical later on to get your B to Bb. I have both, but use the F# to G# more often.

terry

Joe B. Long · From: Llano Tx USA

I lower my 6th string with mine. It feels natural to me when engaging it with the A pedal. I lower my 5th with LK^ and seems to work well for me. I just tried out an older ZB that was made by Brumely and it had the 5th lower on the RKL, I guess I could get used to it but it "didn't feel like ol' Ethyl to me"
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Dave Hepworth · From: West Yorkshire, UK

Hi Sean,
For what it is worth I raise my F# up to G# -you can get a nice MAJ7 chord with pedals AB down (Emmons set up).With regard to the B string I raise that up 3 frets to D in open position.You get an instant open 7th.If you use this with pedals AB down you get a nice sus4- play strings 3&5 with AB down and engage the 3 fret raise you will see what I mean.
Regards Dave

Willis Vanderberg · From: Petoskey Mi

I would use that lever to lower the B's. Works for me.
I know of two pro pickers who use it there.

Sean Borton · From: Winnipeg Manitoba, Canada

I just want to take a moment to say thank you to everybody for sharing your insight. I'm still not too sure what I will end up doing - but this thread (and a few others) is certainly helping me understand what each option brings to the table.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Jack Hanson · From: San Luis Valley, USA

My '73 D-10 p/p has the standard-issue Emmons RKL that raises 1 F# to G, and lowers 6 G# to F#. Whether that lever's engaged or not, it's easy to pull the first string up a half step with the ring finger behind the bar. But so doing likely will dampen the second string.

Dan Behringer · From: Jerseyville, Illinois

I just went from 3 to 4 knee levers myself, so Iâ€™m having the same dilemma. Only having 2 pull rods, I set it up to lower the Bâ€™s and Iâ€™m finding I donâ€™t use it that much. My plan is to get another pull rod then set it up with 1&2 raise - G# lower. I think thatâ€™s going to be my ticket!
The other option I was considering was raising the F#â€™s to G. I can see a cool dominant 7th with the AB pedals and a full minor chord open, if I go that route.

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

John McClung · From: Olympia WA, USA

I'd never lose lowering string 6. Great for sus2 chords, turning open 1 into the 5 chord, etc. It's a mainstay of Buddy Emmons, that says it all.

I do use the string 5 half step lower a lot, but not nearly as much. Probably just need instruction on more ways to use it.

A new change I'm using more than 5 lower, less than 6 lower, is raising string 4 E to F#. Amazing useful in surprising ways. That's on a staggered LKL, in front, a secondary to my D lever on the back (string 2 and 9 lowers).

All this is to personal taste, and whatever you get used to. If something is useful to you, keep it. Just don't be afraid to experiment.
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Rick Stratton · From: Tujunga, California, USA

I lower 5 on the left vertical, but so far I only play 1 song that uses it (Lost in the Feeling)

My Jackson came setup with the 6 lower to F#, but I could never get it to lower all the way (I think there was a wound string on there) so I settled for lowering to G and raising 1 to G also.

I got used to using it for ascending and descending sliding minors (skip strings 2 & 3). Liked having another minor available.

I've been using strings with a plain 20-gauge for the G# more recently, and reading this thread made me try the full tone lower again.
It works great now and I like some of the extra stuff I can do.
Problem is, I've gotten used to the G, which I can still get with a split, but having to add the B pedal with the RKL seems awkward now!

Anyway, I have a gig tonight so I'm changing back to the half step lower again. I'll play with it more when I have time.

Anybody else prefer the G's?
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Harold Parris · From: Piedmont, Alabama USA

I'm lowering the 5th and 6th strings on one knee lever. I use that combination quiet a lot.
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Jeremy Craft · From: Portland, Oregon

I lower 5 on LKV, 2 on RKL, and RKR raises 1 and lowers 6. All of these are half-step moves on my axe.

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