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Topic: Brand check, please! - BUMP |
Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 11 Oct 2013 5:40 am |
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Can anyone help me identify this instrument? I bought it about twenty years ago in non-working order for the equivalent of around $300 and about ten years later I got the E9 neck restrung and working but I had no time to practice. Now that I have time, I've got the C6 neck going too. I play trombone and bass guitar to a pro standard, but this is something else, so I wish myself luck!
When I got it, it had one knee lever which had been added rather crudely (I have added three more and tidied up the first), so in its original state it had eight pedals but no levers, which surely dates it as prehistoric! Some of the original Grover heads have been replaced at some point, and the raise stop plate on the E9 has been replaced with a lump of aluminium (but it does its job, I suppose). In the pictures of the underside the original mechanics are mostly obscured by my additions, but you should be able to see the non-negotiable cranks welded to the axles and the iron frame which runs most of the length.
Although it seems to be a student model, it holds its tuning really well with no hint of cabinet drop, so that I can concentrate on trying to play it without any distractions. I have been given a strong suggestion of who might have built it, but I'll say nothing for now so people can keep an open mind.
Last edited by Ian Rae on 13 Apr 2015 1:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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James Wolf
From:
Georgia
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Posted 11 Oct 2013 6:33 am
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| Shobud? I am a pro trombone player as well. Your pre knowledge of intonation will pay off greatly on pedal steel. |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 11 Oct 2013 6:56 am
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ShoBud permanent?
_________________
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Bob Knight
From:
Bowling Green KY
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Posted 11 Oct 2013 7:16 am
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| Not a Sho~Bud. |
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Fred Justice
From:
Mesa, Arizona
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Posted 11 Oct 2013 8:04 am
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I'm thinking a Miller Custom ???
_________________
Email: azpedalman@gmail.com
Phone: 480-235-8797 |
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Daniel McKee
From:
Corinth Mississippi
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Posted 11 Oct 2013 9:55 am
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| Neat guitar. Not sure of the brand though. |
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Jerry Fessenden
From:
Vermont, USA
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Posted 11 Oct 2013 10:00 am Idenafy
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| It looks exactly like an old Sho Bud permanent that I owned . but could be Wright custom ...more likely |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 12 Oct 2013 9:17 am
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Interesting so far. I may have misinterpreted the primitive nature of this instrument. Having read a bit of history I begin to think that the fixed cranks are not a contemporary budget option but a step on the road to standardisation as mapped by Emmons, and if it isn't some early kind of Sho-bud then it embodies parallel thinking. The basic components are very solid and it is possible to imagine that it was aimed at professionals of a bygone age (I mean the early sixties which I admit I do remember).
To James (trombone) I would say, yes, moving the bar quickly and accurately by ear is the easy part! And I have enough theory to understand what the pedals can do. The tough part is the right hand - I missed out on learning the banjo at my grandfather's knee (which seems to be the secret), so I have work to do there. |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 12 Oct 2013 9:56 am
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I still think its an old ShoBud permanent. The pedals, fret boards and the changer all look ShoBud to me. Wish one of the ShoBud guys would clear up this mystery, I'm curious.
_________________
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Rick Abbott
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 12 Oct 2013 10:06 am
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I don't think it's a Miller, and doesn't resemble any Sho~Bud I've ever seen. It has some features of both.
_________________
RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Sehy #112
1975 Peavey Pacer |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 12 Oct 2013 1:37 pm
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A lot of small output builders made not-too-accurate Sho-Bud knockoffs back in the 60's. This looks like one of them to me.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 12 Oct 2013 3:18 pm
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| NOT a ShoBud. |
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Jeff Metz Jr.
From:
York, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 12 Oct 2013 10:36 pm
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The pickups look like sho bud pickups but they appear to be a Maroon color. I understand the confusion. Even a novice has it's doubts about being a sho bud.
_________________
Mullen G2 SD10 , Lil Izzy Buffer, Goodrich 120 volume pedal, Boss DD-7, Peterson Strobo flip, Peavey Nashville 112 |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 13 Oct 2013 1:09 am
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I think Herb's suggestion has a ring of truth, the consensus of all other replies being
(a) it looks a bit like an old Sho-Bud
(b) it isn't one
Whoever made it was making a serious attempt, as they created something which works and looks good, not a cheap rip-off - so I'm happy even though I doubt I'll ever know where it came from. Frustratingly, it did once have a badge on the front.
The pickups are actually dark brown with a wood-grain effect which runs longways on the C6 and crossways on the E9! Some sort of formica I suppose. (I had the camera set to sunny and then the sun went in which would make some things a bit bluish.) |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 14 Oct 2013 3:45 pm
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| Quote: |
| Although it seems to be a student model, it holds its tuning really well with no hint of cabinet drop, so that I can concentrate on trying to play it without any distractions. |
Normally, I like to take people at their word, but that guitar is a strange beast. I agree with Herb, in that I think it's a copy of something between a Sho~Bud and a Marlen, but you'd be hard pressed to convince me that it was in any way "a good guitar". First off, the scale length looks wrong. Unless there's some photographic distortion going on, the 12th fret isn't in the exact middle of the scale...where it must be! Also, some of the pull rods look to be aluminum, and some look to be steel, and that's a red-flag on any guitar. Some of the rods are bent, and some are bowed. Some are angled, and others just look mangled. There's obvious wear and slop, and also no center support for those (apparently) skinny crossrods. All in all, and based just on my powers of observation (which can be considerable) it looks to be a nightmare of problems, problems that would all have to be corrected for me to consider it a reliable and serviceable instrument. Of course, others may see it differently, and I have no counter to that.
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Clyde Mattocks
From:
Kinston, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 14 Oct 2013 9:27 pm
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As Herb stated, quite a few people built their own look alike guitars. Shot would sell you Sho-Bud parts for your own project.
_________________
LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Fender Twin Tone Master, Session 400, Harlow Dobro, R.Q.Jones Dobro |
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 15 Oct 2013 3:34 am Scale length
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I laid a ruler against the picture, 12th is in the center...
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 15 Oct 2013 7:49 am
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Scott, after it just "looked wrong" to me, that's exactly what I did! And it showed that from the top of the nut to the crown of the changer that the distance was greater from the 12th fret to the changer crown than it was from the 12th fret to the nut.
I just did it again, but it still looks wrong! 
Please check again and see of you don't agree. (It looks to be off by 1/2" or more, to me.) I invite others to do the same "measuring", and see what they come up with!  |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 15 Oct 2013 8:04 am
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I have the advantage of being able to lay a ruler on the actual guitar, and the twelfth fret is in the middle to within a sixteenth of an inch or so, so everyone's right, according to how accurate you want to be. (Whichever fret you sit at, you can't see it the minute you use it, and you have to allow for parallax with the other 23 anyway. I trust my ears.)
The camera is only a compact model with not much glass on the front, so its evidence would be shaky in court.
(more to follow...) |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 15 Oct 2013 8:42 am
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I love the honesty on this forum, and Donny's criticisms are all entirely valid - I appreciate engineering elegance but it's outside my reach at the moment. I have been driven so far by the urge to play, and the bits I've bolted on do get in each other's way. I should really strip it and start again (the notion of "restoring" doesn't really fit the case), but I want to get learning and I have no second instrument while this one's on the bench. Perhaps when I get good enough to blame the guitar I'll sell something (the house maybe) and get a modern one.
Incidentally, I hate alumin(i)um - the thick lighter-coloured rods are actually steel fencing wire (don't get much countrier than that!) and as it comes on a roll it's difficult to massage straight (I started off using stuff from around the garage and carried on that way). I was desperate to get a second lever on there to raise the E's and drag it into the 1970's. Then I put on a third lever to lower the 3rd string on the C6 neck and also hooked it up to lower the 9th string on the E9. Finally I raised the A's on the C6 to Bb's and had the same lever raise string 7 on the E9. So I feel I have enough toys for now. As for how serviceable it is, the more I practise the sooner I'll find out! |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 15 Oct 2013 1:40 pm
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Thank you, Ian... 1/16th inch is close enough! It wasn't so much that I like to be a nit-picker, but I've seen a lot of new players get frustrated with their guitar, and subsequently loose interest because of problems created by someone who previously owned their guitar. People installing improper fretboards on older guitars is not so rare as you might think, as are players who have the right-scale fretboards, but don't know how to properly locate them. And, a large percentage of newbies buy guitars that have always been over-tuned, and that can be frustrating, too. It's true that the improved communication nowadays certainly prevents a lot of problems, but some beginners are afraid to ask more seasoned players about an old guitar because some of those seasoned players first suggestion is to buy something with more pedals and levers. I have an old Fender 400, with 4 pedals and no levers, and it's a blast to play! I really learn a lot more about actual playing when I use it, as opposed to just hitting all the "stock licks" on my newer guitars, which have 7 or 8 levers.
Looks isn't that important to me, and if your guitar works right and tunes well, and you're happy with it, you're none the worse off than those who own the "big name" brands. What matters isn't what you're sitting behind, but what comes out of it when you play. The steel world is full of $500 players with $5,000 guitars (and I'm one of 'em!  ).
Good luck on your journey.  |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 15 Oct 2013 2:45 pm
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| Thank you Donny - appreciated... |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 13 Apr 2015 1:50 pm
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Just thought I'd give this a bump and see if any new light gets shed on this old guitar. The undercarriage I have since rebuilt with five knees and it's a lot tidier. (When I got it it had just the one, lowering 2 & 8 ). It sounds and plays well - would love to know who put the original together. It's built like a battleship and I doubt if I shall ever gig it - I can barely lift it! 
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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David Nugent
From:
Gum Spring, Va.
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Posted 13 Apr 2015 4:42 pm
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| The one item that jumped out at me was the manner in which the pedal rods attach to the pedals. To the best of my knowledge, Emmons guitars employed this method, Sho -Buds generally had the spring clip type ball connectors. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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