Half peddlin the minor

Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

For those of us that do not lower the 6th string, I like to do my root position minors with a half pedal And E's raised 1 fret lower. (ala Gm at fret 2) This works well when using string groups 8 6 5 and 10 8 6 especially when sliding and another group pick is clumsy... a lot of practice with a backing track to catch that half has been good to me...it can raise the ears on an old basset hound if you don't land good ! Does anybody else do this?
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A.K.A Chappy.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Larry,
You want to hear some great half-pedal minor work, check out "Bar Hoppin'" by Lloyd. Very Bluesy. In the first two beats of the measure, he does a full, major bend, with the first pedal, followed in the second two beats by a half,minor. bend, on the first pedal. Not eggs ackley what you're talking about,,,,, but very cool!

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

Half pedal the "A" pedal while holding the "B" pedal down, yeah...

This tune from our latest CD features a full-pedal "major" I figure followed by a half-pedal "minor" I (i.e. IV7+9) tweak of the same "A" Pedal rocking figure during the chorus...

http://www.pdxaudio.com/ronrogers/soulsalvation.mp3

Is that what you mean or are you onto something else entirely?

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Nope. He means a Gm at few two with ½AF (or an FM at the nut).
While that works, it sounds awkward AND you have oddball relations with the adjacent strings. Unless you need that minor second to the F# strings
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

Thanks Lane, that makes sense now Razz

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Not the same thing, but still very cool half-pedaling. Listen hard, cuz it goes by quick.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWNZ3iT-33E

Pete Nicholls · From: Macon, Georgia, USA

I practice my half-pedaling with Break It To Me Gently
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Justice The Judge SD-10, 2007
Justice Pro Lite SD-10, 2011
Quilter Steelaire
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Roland Cube 80-XL
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1 Fender Telecaster Nashville Edition
Ham Call: N4BHB

Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

I would use it everywhere except the nut.... I don't see where a conflict of strings is there, unless you want to do a Scalic run... if you do an F sharp minor at Fret 5, A pedal on, strings 6 8 10 , then you just slide down to fret 1 with half A pedal and F lever... It works for the glissando licks, where you would not want to stop the re-grip a new string group.... I don't always like the minor 7th it's not as sweet as a pure minor!

You also don't need the 6th string lower function if you can master that move for the minors.
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A.K.A Chappy.

Jim Pitman · From: Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA

Got a lever for that. It lowers the B a half step with tunable split. It's got to be the most useful change after the standard E9 changes I can think of.
Combined with A+B pedals gives you a minor. Combined with A pedal only gives you an augmented. By itself gives you a 7 of some sort.
If used in combo with the A pedal only, starting on the minor, you can get a single note decension while the other two notes of the triad stay put using a three string grip....ie at third fret Em...Gaug....G...F#7...(not possible on a push/pull guitar because raises dominate BTW).
If you don't have that change I'd add it. - biggest bang for the buck to add on an all pull guitar with threaded holes for tuneable splits at the changer end.

Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

I"m lost Jim...@ fret 3 G major strings 6 8 10..... how do you get your minor there with that lever.

That does sound good brother.
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A.K.A Chappy.

Howard Steinberg · From: St. Petersburg, Florida , USA

To get the root position (parallel) minor you lower string 6 a whole step (lever) and raise it up a half step with pedal b. You tune the note with the split. Some guitars, without split tuning can get pretty close others not so much.

For a parallel minor with a and b pedals down you lower strings 5 and 10 1/2 step, again tuning with the split. In my experience this change definitely needs the split to get it in tune.
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Keith Currie · From: Shellbrook, Saskatchewan, Canada

Yea I do it with the full tone lower on six string with the split on pedal B to keep it all in tune, Love that change use it a lot with the split.

Gerald Shaw · From: Florida, USA

If you drop back 1 more fret you can get the same chord using the B and C Pedals (but not if you're using the 10th sting) At Fret 1- on strings 6-5-4 you'd get Bb-D-G.

Keith Currie · From: Shellbrook, Saskatchewan, Canada

I pull the 10th string also with C pedal but with the 6st string you get the minor on the open fret which is easy and quick I find, Just what you get use to I guess.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

But if you use the other strings and the common pedalled (or released, in the case of notes changed to make the chord) notes to get the various leading, leaning and passing tones to spin melodies (the most beautiful and powerful aspect of the E9th tuning is that THEY'RE RIGHT THERE UNDER THE BAR), I find that the (in descending order of usefulness to my brainÂ²:

G#m with Es lowered has the best variety right there (the F# string the 7th, the E# lever the 6th, with the 2nd string still giving you the 5-I rarely use 6 in minor chord melodies, and it's in a handier place in the C#m- the 2 with the B strings lowered to A#, the 4 with the A pedal. Most tuning charts leave this form in good shape. The iv Chord is there with A pedal, IV with AF, the V7 up one fret with Es dropped and B pedal. Relative minor to B, good match to the tuning. The common walkdown of the root (almost a clichÃ©, but it's still pretty) by half steps is possible, but not as easy as in;

C#, A pedal. 2 is at the D#, both with lever and 2nd string. 4 is either the C pedal or 2&7, the 6 comes from releasing A and dropping to A#, the 7 with the B string open. That clichÃ© walkdown fits here perfectly: A, A with drop lever, open, dropped only. Tuning charts leave this form in good shape. Relative minor to E, good match to the tuning

F#m, B and C pedals. Also sounds good on almost all tuning charts. Root at 7, 4C, and 2. 2 with released B (or 1 with the Tommy White raise), 4 with released C on 10 and 5. 6 at 2, 7 at 4&8 (with C released) or 2 with the Tommy White raiseÂ³. Is the relative minor of A, pretty close to E, most notes in common with E

Those forms sit right there in the diatonic nature of the tuning. Now let's see what we gots with the other two forms herein discussed:

Fm, with F lever and Â½A. 1, most folks flatten the bejeebers out of the F, so don't let this chord ring much (although you can get it closer to true by flattening the half-pedalled C note, but I have doubts about that Ab)
There's a flat 2 on 1&7, regular 2 either needs the 6th string split or half step raise of 1&7, 4 needs release of Â½A and a half step drop of 5&10, 6 is on 9 or 2 dropped Â½ and 7 is 2, or released F and added D#. Relative minor to Ab, with most tuning charts, most of the notes are nearly unusable, since they're shifted the wrong way, only 2 notes in common with E major scale. Both Bbm and C7 not readily available at the nut (but, to be fair, Bbm is at 1ABXâ´ and C7 at 1D#B)

Am, with ABX. Relative minor to C, only 3 notes in common. 2? Release A and X. 4, 9 and 2 dropped Â½. 6 is 2&7, 7 with half step raise of 2&7. Dm? Not at the nut, but at 1D#, E7, right there.

Yes, the chords are there, but geez, it's a mess trying to do anything with them.
If you answer "yes, but it comes easier to my guitar-brain," I'll have to answer your answer with "your pedal steel playing will suffer until you think about this thing in terms of 'here's a similarly to guitar, so I'll stake my tent here,' because you just put your tent in the least interesting part of the campground."
For that matter, on the guitar I have always thought of Em as cousin to G and NOT E with a lifted finger, and Am as C with a tail rather than A with a flatted C#. So maybe I'm weird; I think I can defend and explain my thought process.

I apologize for the wordiness.

Â¹for ease of discussion I'll call the chords by what you find at the nut
Â²but I think I can justify my thinking
Â³ I cannot BELIEVE I just now noticed this, 700 miles from my guitar. Must try using it this weekend.
â´ By X I mean the A# lever, Â½step drop of 5&10
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

You boys are great sports, I love a good discussion ha ha.. So here's my point, I would never use that position as anything other than just a minor on the slide. I would not go there for a grouping unless I was was on 10 8 and 6 and was sliding down to it.

Yes I could go down one more fret and hit pedals b and c and that's normally what I do, however you can't catch the 10.
I used to have six string lower and I have dabbled with half and full, but I've cut back on my co-ped because a much more solid co-ped Has a much more solid tuning stability .. I'm down to 4 and 3 and that's a lifetime of work.

This minor move works beautifully but only when executed correctly. Us non 6th string droppers have a way to keep the 10th string singing with the half peddling plus the F lever.

Are the any non 6th string droppers out there ?
_________________
A.K.A Chappy.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Fair enough. But with most people tuning the F lever some 20 or more cents flat, it might not ring true.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

That is true, you still have to use ear and maybe move up 20 cents. Crickey, it's tea time mate!
To be quite honest , I would really like to have that raise on the eighth string on the separate lever. I did put on the C ped but I didn't like the feel and I also don't like jumping from A pedal to C pedal whilst I'm on the slide.

Got any ideas I'm out of levers really?
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A.K.A Chappy.

Ron Pruter · From: Arizona, USA

Chappy,
I like the sound of the chord without the half stepped A pedal. Kind of a flat 5 sound. I use it more in the 1(3rd fret) to 1 Dim. (2nd fret F lever) then to the 1st fret 5 chord ( still with F lever)
BTW, I love a minor 6th I found. I use it in "Desperado". I play it in G (3rd fret) then mash A and B for the 4 chord, then for the minor 6th, I go to the 4th fret(with f lever only) Strings 3456 , then play 2nd string for the extra melody note. Try it.
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Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I like that, Ron.
After getting a PM, I want to revise my earlier remark.
While I stand by my assertion that most other voicings will have limited utility, I guess it's almost tautological that the more you know the neck, the more places you'll find Gm, f'rinstance.
I bet Russ Wever could probably show you a Gm at every fret without having to think about it.
But I bet he won't use most of 'em.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Jim Pitman · From: Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA

Yeh, Sorry Larry. I completely misinterpretted your description. When you said half pedal minor my mind immediately thought of (E9 Emmons setup) the chord you get when you press pedals 1 and 2 together, grip strings 3, 4, and 5, and rock off pedal 1 half way, ie, 4 minor.
I didn't even read your post just the title - my bad, lol. In any case if your are willing to half pedal - there's another one.

Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

Sounds great men, thanks for all the input...Looking back, i could have put up a clearer heading, it was a bit mis-leading and confusing, sorry lads!

PS...It wasent me that PM'ed Lane. Very Happy

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A.K.A Chappy.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

You're right, Larry. But someone DID send this in a PM (I'm not saying who, but here's the bit that made me rethink my post):

Don Drummer · From: West Virginia, USA

Half lever the the 6th string whole drop. It's a good ear training/lever control exercise.

Jim Robbins · From: Ontario, Canada

I like that 1/2 pedal idea because of the smooth slide from major to minor -- if only I could get it in tune. Another option with different strings and no half-pedalling is to go up one fret and lower E's and B's 1/2 tone. The F# strings are now the 3rd of the chord and the G# strings are a passing 4th notes.

But another cool thing about your 1/2 pedal idea is a nice chromatic run down from the tonic to the 5th over the minor chord -- eg in B minor, start at fret 6 raise E's, release E's, lower E's, maintaining 1/2 pedalled A pedal - then slide down to fret 3, release A pedal & raise E's, release, lower them. Hot diggity.

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