Alright, Im just going to dive in and try....

Jeff Metz Jr. · From: York, Pennsylvania, USA

I have been frustrated with my recently bought, and first ever push pull emmons. It needs some of the knees adjusted and also some of the pedals setup properly. I just cannot get anyone in my area to commit so I am just going to have at it. A few questions.
I have seen mentioned that one adjustment will affect many others, or could possibly. What is an example of this?
I did note that some of my changes dont bring the changer finger all the way to the body. What is the issue there? Do I need to move the collar? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I figure I am just gonna have to learn one way or the other.
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Mullen G2 SD10 , Lil Izzy Buffer, Goodrich 120 volume pedal, Boss DD-7, Peterson Strobo flip, Peavey Nashville 112

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Some changes SHOULDN'T bring the fingers to the body: the F lever, P6's raise (assuming it's an 8 pedal uni: I mean the one that pulls 4 back up to E), the B pedal (if it's a Uni: you have B6 pedals that go to A#). On string 8, the D# shouldn't hit the cap screw, if it's a Uni, since P6 will take it down to D.
Terminal raises (the highest note on a string) should hit the body. Opens, the finger should rest on the bottom cap screw. Terminal lowers should hit the cap screw. Intermediate raises and lowers (in other words, notes in between the top and bottom of each string's range) will hit no finger stops. Make sense?
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Jeff, you're a brave man. You might want to purchase a copy of Bobbe Seymour's DVD on how to adjust a push-pull. I think there's one on offer right now on the Forum, if it hasn't already been sold...
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Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Billy Cooper's shop is in Orange Va. Its probably a 4 hour or so drive from York. It will cost you but it will be set up properly. Billy is an Emmons PP Expert.

http://www.billycooperssteelguitar.com/

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

also- the pedal and lever stops should engage just a titch after the pull or lower finger contacts the body or lower screw- acting as a second stop to keep from applying too much force on the mechanism. In general, short (ie-1/4") springs on the rods before the collars are used on all but the longest pulls for each pedal or lever used in order to enable complete activation of all changes. One more thing- always setup the lowers for each string 1st and have it engaged when setting up the raises for that string as there has to be enough room for the lower to occur before the raise engages in order for the mechanism to work correctly.

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

Read the sticky and every post you can find, the big deal is that you must leave enough slack in the raises to accomodate the lowers or you will not be able to tune it up.

Eric Philippsen · From: Central Florida USA

What Jack said.........it might be a good idea to take the guitar to Billy Cooper's.

For what it's worth, here's my testimonial about this. Decades ago I looked at the underside of my D10 push-pull and said, "Why, lookee here. These linkages and springs aren't tight. Someone must've messed this all up. I need to fix those right now! I bet it will play so much better!"

And fix it I did. Or, more accurately, I proceeded to screw it all up in a huge, major way. Gawd, what an incredible mess I made. And I had no idea how to reverse what I had done.

My point is NOT to discourage someone from learning how a push-pull works or even how to adjust one. My point is, if you have no other choice, read a lot about 'em first, be careful and then go slow.

Now, I have more of these animals than I can shake a stick at. And you can bet I know how they work now. BUT I still take every one to Dave Peterson in Wheeling IL.

Best of luck.

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

Don't forget the Wilderness Guide. Between that and the Seymour video I was able to rebuild my D10 PP.

I can't imagine owning a PP and being so afraid of it that I wouldn't make simple adjustments.

Of course you will make mistakes as you learn, but there is very little that you can't undo and eventually get right.

I'm sure my steel doesn't work quite as good as it could if I took it to someone with more knowledge and experience, but it works good enough for me to get gigs, and it sounds fabulous.

Jeff Metz Jr. · From: York, Pennsylvania, USA

Haha, Yeah that was my copy of Bobbe S's dvd for sale here on the forum. I bought it, and the Clem S. Methodology combo, and niether helped me. I guess they were too broad. I dont want to take my whole undercarriage apart and re-assemble it.
I dont want to screw up my only guitar at the moment but I don't have anyone that can show me without spending 500 dollars. It sounds like a ton of work but Im sure its only a few hours of work.
I guess Im gonna hold off.
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Mullen G2 SD10 , Lil Izzy Buffer, Goodrich 120 volume pedal, Boss DD-7, Peterson Strobo flip, Peavey Nashville 112

Alan Berdoulay · Posted 20 Sep 2013 3:07 am

There's Tom Vollmer in the Reading area......Hamburg I believe.
Six one zero three three four three seven one six

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

first make sure that there is actually a problem before undertaking a task you're not qualified to address.

richard burton · From: Britain

Jeff,
If you're mechanically minded, just observing how the mechanism works should tell you what adjustments to make.

However, if you don't have any mechanical talents whatsoever, then attempting to adjust a push-pull is foolish, especially if you don't have a spare steel to gig with.

In an earlier post, you were having trouble with the pedals hitting the carpet, and you couldn't even see how to make the simple adjustment to the pedal rod ends, so I don't hold out much hope for any attempts you make to re-set the push-pull undercarriage.

Jeff Metz Jr. · From: York, Pennsylvania, USA

Richard Burton Wrote:
"In an earlier post, you were having trouble with the pedals hitting the carpet, and you couldn't even see how to make the simple adjustment to the pedal rod ends, so I don't hold out much hope for any attempts you make to re-set the push-pull undercarriage"

I can adjust the pedals fine, Its just that whoever had this push pull before me, Well I'll say before the previous owner (since I talked to him) had pulled this guitar all out of wack! The pedals were fitted with 2 hex collars and I found out later that the rods are 1 " under standard height, with extensions on them. Factory standard there was no way to adjust them to normal, and the extensions were too long. Therein lies my previous problem.
I am pretty good with mechanics and have gotten the A,B, and E levers to work out a lot more precise and smoother. I just want to BE SURE that everything is working the way it should so that I don't do actual damage to the guitar.

Thanks for the comments Lane , that makes sense.
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Mullen G2 SD10 , Lil Izzy Buffer, Goodrich 120 volume pedal, Boss DD-7, Peterson Strobo flip, Peavey Nashville 112

Alan Berdoulay · Posted 21 Sep 2013 4:07 am

Hi Jeff. I have two push pulls...... A single 10 and a double 10 that are set up and play as they should......if you'd like to stop by and compare....I'm in southeastern penna.

Fred Amendola · From: Lancaster, Pa.

Tommy Vollmer in Hamburg might be able to help you.

If you'd like to talk sometime give me a call or drop an email thru the forum. I played and adjusted a push pull for quite some years.

Fred

Chris Lucker · From: Los Angeles, California USA

I do not know if you found the correct hex extensions but you can order them from McMaster Carr along with the aluminum spacers for the front legs. They have a full range of 10/32 hex standoffs available. Or you can order the hex and tubing stock and machine replacement hexes and corresponding spacers.
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars.

Mike Cass · Posted 21 Sep 2013 11:41 am

hi Jeff,

We've pm'ed about this a few times and I do understand your situation. That being said, let me say this: if I can do this so can you, its just a simple process with a definite starting point. Its not like doing an all-pull guitar; you can see everything that's happening as the p/p mechanism is activated, whether it be by pedal or knee lever.
Additionally, I believe you told us that you have an S-12 and not an ST model w/pad which means that your guitar has the shorter C6 style changer. That changes everything, leverage wise.

The correct place to start is to completely de-rod the undercarriage(trust me on this part). Next, change the strings and stretch them good. After that, make sure all your drop return springs are bringing the lowers back to the body correctly(regardless of where the lowers are tuned right now)and are not too stiff, then hand tune the changer(raises first, then opens, then lowers)and recheck the drop springs for accuracy and feel.

After you've achieved these procedures call me @ 615-446-5952 and I'll walk you through the rest of it....its not as bad as you think Smile

MC
615-446-5952 10am-6pm CDT

Bobby Bowman · From: Cypress, Texas, USA, R.I.P.

Mike,
Let me say that your offer to assist goes beyond the "call of duty". My hat is off to you.
Jeff, at least for now, stick with Mike. He is among the very best of all steel guitar mechanics.
Thanks Mike for all that you do.
BB
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Jeff Garden · From: Center Sandwich, New Hampshire, USA

If you have a digital camera (or a phone camera) you may want to take detailed photos at various stages in case you need to "return" to a particular step (or go all the way back to the beginning). Also I'd recommend labeling everything carefully.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Ummm, if it's not right, I have doubts about the efficacy of "before" photos as a reassembly guide.
I like Mike's suggestion of redoing the whole thing: if he doesn't want to do all 12 strings, at least remove every pull from any string he wants to do anything to.
But if Mike gave ME advice, I'd take it.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Jeff Garden · From: Center Sandwich, New Hampshire, USA

well if you change your mind halfway through or decide to sell it, it beats having a box of parts Smile

Jack Hanson · From: San Luis Valley, USA

Chris Lucker · From: Los Angeles, California USA

Take Mike's offer to help. Your guitar will get set up and you will understand why. That is important.
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars.

Mike Cass · Posted 21 Sep 2013 7:31 pm

thanks guys....
we all had to start somewhere. Better to learn on your own guitar and time than on someone else's.

Id never leave you hanging though Jeff. The reason I said to start over is that I KNOW I can help you to get it working correctly that way, and doing just some of it may cause more problems than anticipated....at this point, who really knows what you have under there. However I do feel that the suggestion to send me above and below detailed pics(in jpeg please)as the axe is right now is spot on. Having said that, Lane may be right as well, but from the standpoint that if I see something that is correct or easily put right, there would be no need to pull it out. Additionally, Id bet $$'s to donuts that you'll need to place spacers where there currently aren't any(or vice versa), the same for set collars and shock absorber springs. Those 3 parts seem to be the most commonly missing or incorrectly placed on p/p's. I have them all in stock @ a very reasonable prices, if needed. Raise hook material can be obtained locally and hooks can be easily made.

You will need the following tools:
1. a smallish, long nose(needle nose)pliers.
2. an "external" snap ring pliers.
3. a larger side-cutter pliers to cut springs to accurate lengths....commonly called a Dykes.
4. 2 dozen 1/4" external snap rings..I have them..cheap.
5. 1 Phillips head and 1 slot head screwdriver, each at least 1 foot long....commonly known in the trade as "Emmons" screwdrivers. After you use them you'll know why Smile

6. a 5/64 Allen wrench, long length(abt 6").... available online from McMaster-Carr.
7. a 7/64 Allen wrench, short length(abt 3")is fine there...found @ nearly any h'ware store.
8. a bottle of Zoom or Extendo brand oil....both come with handy, pull out spouts.
9. a pencil shaped magnet...indispensable!
10. a good Channel-Lock pliers.
11. a decent standard set of pliers.
12. a good dose of patience...also indispensable.

Pretty much anything else I can get you, but really that about covers it.

If you can obtain all of that and follow my directions, it'll be worth keeping, or at least you'd be able to sell it as a factory set up axe if it doesn't turn out to be what you're looking for. And, as Chris said, after its done you'll know why its done that way.......
lmk,

MC

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

I still remember my first attempt at making changes to my Emmons S-12. I added 4 pedals to convert it from an Extended E9 to an E9/B6 Universal. It was quite a task; but, when I was done I knew exactly how everything worked on my guitar and was able to make adjustments as needed.

Click Here

Lee, from South Texas

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