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Topic: Modifying a Fender Pro Reverb Silverface for Pedal Steel |
Charles Swing
From:
Greensboro, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2013 10:52 am |
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Hey kind folks! I am a new steel player  with a '72 Fender Pro Reverb Silverface amp  . So far this has been an adequate yet less-than-great amp for pedal steel. Does anyone have any advice for modifying this amp to help get that clean loudness I'm looking for? Or would it just be cheaper for me to get a 112? Thanks! |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2013 11:01 am
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If you play in a loud band it will be a struggle even with a Twin.
The only cure I have found is a Pre-Amp (Revelation) and Stewart 1.2 w/ 2 JBLs
Not the best solution.. best is to turn down the band.
Yes It will be cheaper to get a NV 112 or 400
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
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Eric Philippsen
From:
Central Florida USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2013 11:01 am
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A Pro Reverb is pretty low on Power. I think they're great for 6-string work but lack the power to handle the full range of a steel's voice. For one thing, it's output transformer is pretty wimpy.
Other players will disagree, of course. They must play with a silent drummer. |
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Gerry Simon
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2013 11:23 am
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| If you read past messages in the forums, you will find MANY suggestions for your choice of amp. Those of us who have been playing a long time will often have owned or currently own many of those choices, and pick the amp based on venue, type of music, weight, set up time, volume of the band, and how we are feeling at that particular time...I played thru a stock Pro Reverb for a couple years and always liked the sound a lot but the weight if carrying up stairs was the straw the broke 'my' back....my latest amp is the Cube 80; light, fast to set up, and sounds pretty good with decent f/x...If you are in a loud band and can go thru the PA, just move any smaller amp closer to your steel for better hearing...try as many as you can... |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 30 Aug 2013 11:29 am
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that amp should be good enough for 99% of your steel guitar needs
if you want to take it to a tech to make it more steel friendly here are some tips:
change the filter pack and up the values - especially that first stage filter. More capacity will get you more headroom.
bias the amp for maximum headroom - can't think of it as a guitar amp and run it hot anymore. Its gotta be kind of cool to stay clean
disable any extraneous circuits either with a switch or by pulling the tubes. I think a single channel non tremolo amp is best for steel
if you've got a tube rectifier in there, put in a solid state replacement and re-bias the amp.
Remember that a 45W tube amp can hold its own against a 200W solid state amp. That solid state amp needs a lot more power to get its tone.
Welcome to the never ending argument that is which amp to use
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Milkmansound.com |
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Charles Swing
From:
Greensboro, North Carolina, USA
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 30 Aug 2013 1:13 pm
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The Pro will eat any Nashville 112 for lunch all day long 
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Milkmansound.com |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2013 3:16 pm
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FYI, I play Tim's Milkman amps....I had the 85w Pedal Steel Amp, but have switched to the 50w Sideman and 40w Steel Mini.....plenty loud enough, and the Mini is sort of a Pro Reverb-style amp, I believe, but with all of Tim's mods designed into it.
And yes, the guitar player in my band plays a Twin Reverb, so we ain't a quiet band...stick with tubes! The tone is worth it....I tried solid-state, but couldn't convince myself that the loss of tonal personality was worth it....
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2013 10:04 pm
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Just my opinion, but a Pro Reverb is perhaps the greatest guitar amp fender made, so before modifying it I would look to something like a Sho Bud Compactra (tube) or a Christmas Tree (solid state) for a lower power steel amp at a lesser value. I would not mess up a perfectly desirable pro reverb.
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Geoff Queen
From:
Austin Texas, USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2013 10:54 pm
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| A 71 Pro Reverb has been my main steel amp for a couple of years now. The cabinet was rough when I bought it, so I took that opportunity to replace the speaker baffle board and put a Neo 15 in it. That may be more than you want to get into;but a pair of stiffer speakers will help with your headroom issues, in addition to the things Tim mentioned above. If I did it again and wasn't spoiled by the weight of the Neo, I'd try a pair of Weber 12f150s. The one in my Deluxe Reverb sounds great with steel. I also plug into the normal channel, it seems to be more steel friendly. |
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Brett Lanier
From:
Madison, TN
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Posted 31 Aug 2013 12:12 am
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| Ken Metcalf wrote: |
| If you play in a loud band it will be a struggle even with a Twin. |
I respectfully disagree. If you are struggling with a twin cranked up, that tells me the guitars probably aren't mic'ed and the band as a whole has bigger sound issues than needing another steel amp. If the amps are mic'ed (which they should be at that kind of volume), it's all about positioning your guitar and amp in a way so that you can hear everything. I used a bandmaster the other day on a gigundous stage and it was plenty.
Putting a solid state plug in rectifier in your amp would definitely help for pedal steel. |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 31 Aug 2013 4:25 am
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| I agree with Tim Marcus that changing a tube rectifier gives a bit more headroom as I changed my Deluxe Reverb to a SS rectifier and makes a difference for surf music at a reasonable volume. It's an ongoing subject as to the best steel amp but in a load band you need headroom and power. The Rev and World.1.2 as mentioned is a good choice. |
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john widgren
From:
Wilton CT
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Posted 31 Aug 2013 7:42 am pro
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Yes a Pro reverb can be a wonderfully sweet steel amp. I have done many sessions with blackface pro's.
Most of the mods suggested are spot on, but the thing that you would probably hear as much as anything else would be to upgrade to a steel friendly speaker.
We all have our preferences, and to each his own..but I'd stay away from guitar voiced speakers.
FWIW I'd try a telonics neo 12, or a Peavey 1203-4
Maybe even a blue marvel.
_________________
Steel Guitar Services:
Live performance and recording. Instruments, repairs and lessons. Fresh bait/discount sushi.
(203) 858-8498
widcj@hotmail.com |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 31 Aug 2013 8:45 am
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I would not do anything irreversible to a '72 Pro Reverb. But a few things that are pretty easy to reverse (get a good tech to do 2. or 3. for you unless you are very handy around tube circuits):
0. As others have stated, really good speakers are probably the best thing one can do. I use a single Weber Weber 12F150 in my Deluxe Reverb, it does wonders and isn't obnoxiously heavy. A pair in a Pro would probably sound great. Of course, I love a pair of coffee-can EV SROs in a Pro or Twin, but they're heavy as hell. But if you want to work out your arm muscles on the way in or out of gigs - just do 100 reps up and down on each arm, that would do it. 
1. Good NOS power tubes with lots of headroom, biased reasonably cool but not so cool they sound bad when you crank 'em. This ain't so easy anymore, the really good NOS tubes are getting hard to find and expensive, you'll have to poke around.
2. As has been suggested, make sure your filter caps are strong. Then you're less likely to blow things up if you decide to use a high-current-capacity rectifier tube like a 5AR4/GZ-34 or a solid-state rectifier.
3. Replace the Tremelo intensity pot with a push-pull pot with a switch that can cut the tremelo in/out of the 'Vibrato' channel. The tremelo circuit cuts the gain a bit, and if you disable it, you'll notice a significant boost. One could just disable the tremelo without a switch, but I like it for 6-string, and thus want it available. Just save the original pot in case you want to put it back to stock.
4. Or if you don't like Option #3 and can live without the Normal channel, just pull the Normal channel's first preamp tube V1 (all the way to the right as you look at the amp from the back). That actually gives a bit of a boost to the 'Vibrato' channel.
5. Depending on the amp and the steel pickups, I sometimes use a slightly lower-gain (than 12AX7/7025) preamp tube in V2 (next to V1). This is the first preamp tube for the 'Vibrato' channel - 5751 or 12AY7 most commonly. This tends to clean up that channel a bit - I often can pretty well crank up old Fenders if I need to without them breaking up much.
I generally use a '74 Deluxe Reverb or a '57 tweed Bassman for pedal steel and guitar. Admittedly, I don't generally play obnoxiously loud gigs anymore. Most club owners around here just don't tolerate it, and neither do the 'noise police', who love to go around and fine clubs for noise violations. But I do generally play with drummers - sometimes they use sticks, sometimes brushes, and they're aware of sound levels - but it ain't all that quiet. If I was doing more C6 for steel, I might prefer a NV 400, but most of the time, those two Fenders cut the gig just fine. |
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Steve Hinson
From:
Hendersonville Tn USA
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Posted 31 Aug 2013 8:49 am
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| Eric Philippsen wrote: |
A Pro Reverb is pretty low on Power. I think they're great for 6-string work but lack the power to handle the full range of a steel's voice. For one thing, it's output transformer is pretty wimpy.
Other players will disagree, of course. They must play with a silent drummer. |
Never seen it done,but I have heard that the Bassman output xformer will improve the Pro Reverb...it is certainly more substantial...somebody more handy than me could probably figure out how to mount it without drilling new holes in the chassis...just a thought..my son has a silverface Pro and it wouldn't have enough clean headroom to use for steel(not for me,anyway).... |
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Chris Boyd
From:
Leonia,N.J./Charlestown,R.I.
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Posted 31 Aug 2013 9:12 am
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My '65 Pro Reverb has a Bassman output tranny... I bought it years ago from architect and amp master Doug Sewell (PRS amps)..that tranny definately beefs up the amp...If using it for pedal steel,I'd get a pair of the Telonics 8 ohm 12's that aren't available yet..
_________________
https://www.reverbnation.com/bigredandtheresonators |
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Steve Hinson
From:
Hendersonville Tn USA
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Posted 31 Aug 2013 9:18 am
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| My boy's Pro has Altecs in it(HEAVY!)...I am liking the new Eminence 12 for steel...got one in my 112...2 of those would be a 2 ohm load,though,and not the correct load fot the Pro...but the Super Reverb transformer would work,now that I think about it!It looks beefy like the Bassman transformer...you could run 2 4-ohm 12s in a Pro with a Super transformer...my head hurts... |
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john widgren
From:
Wilton CT
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Posted 31 Aug 2013 10:46 am speakers
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If you are gonna stay with two twelves, you might consider two neo 1201-8's. Nice!
_________________
Steel Guitar Services:
Live performance and recording. Instruments, repairs and lessons. Fresh bait/discount sushi.
(203) 858-8498
widcj@hotmail.com |
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Stephen Cowell
From:
Round Rock, Texas, USA
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Posted 31 Aug 2013 4:10 pm
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For your purposes you could use a Twin OT... when you run it with two output tubes the output impedance becomes 8ohms, which would fit just right with a single-speaker 15" (unless you find a 4ohm you like). A baffle board swap would be in order, of course.
As others have said, this is more of a guitar amp... if you want a pedal steel amp, sell this one and find a Twin Reverb etc. 1972 is not an especially classic year for Fenders... at least they're non-master-volume, but they contain the plastic wire and bias balance controls brought in by CBS. The bias can be converted to full bias control easily, but the plastic wiring is a big job to remove properly. The rest of the amp is mostly like BF specs... a few resistors in the PI changed, probably better for steel guitar that way anyway.
Given the option, knowing what I now know... I'd tend to not hack it up... but it's your amp! Heck, start a collection... they look real good stacked next to each other, use a Twin for bigger gigs and the Pro for smaller ones.
_________________
New FB Page: Lap Steel Licks And Stuff: https://www.facebook.com/groups/195394851800329 |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 31 Aug 2013 8:32 pm
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You might consider using an alnico JBL 15" (D130f or K130) of appropriate impedance in place of the stock 12" drivers. This will clean up the guitar-friendly fuzzy speaker distortion, smooth and expand the frequency response, and still deliver more output per watt so you don't have to turn your amp up as far, further reducing distortion. And the single magnet will weigh less than a pair of 12" JBL's, which this amp does not have the power to fully utilize anyway.
Louder, cleaner, lighter, just a thought... |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 1 Sep 2013 8:07 am
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The question was a little vague ...but the question was "would it just be cheaper for me to get a 112"
My Deluxe reverb really came to life when I replaced the power tubes and put in a Weber 12f150.
Didn't get a lot louder just sounded way better.
You say the amp is less than great for PSG.
It may help to clarify your needs.
Over a period of time a Peavey will probably be cheaper to purchase and maintain.
I change tubes more often than most people. When I hear a loss of clean headroom.. Every couple years or so playing steel hard through tubes.
Musical standards are that for a reason... Most PSG players play Peaveys because they work and and are economical.
I don't play Peavey amps out.. although I still have a Session 400 and it is a very good amp.
I can tell you absolutely (for me) it would be cheaper to play a NV 112 than maintain my tube amps. Also another point is if you are sort of new to steel... you will struggle with tone.
And yes it is obviously better if the band turns down. Good luck on that 
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
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Steve Spitz
From:
New Orleans, LA, USA
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Posted 1 Sep 2013 11:10 am Cheaper to get the 112 ?
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I play an old Twin reverb through a 15" JBL. It sounds great. If there is a gig out there that needs more volume than that , I haven't found it, and I'm pretty sure I'd rather not find it.
If I was new to steel, I'd say get a Peavey steel amp and be done with it. I don't know enough about making mods and buying parts and pieces to guarantee I'd get it right. The peavey would likely be cheaper, reliable, and loud.
If someone offers me a pro , and its all tricked out for steel, and I could have it for the price of a used peavey steel amp...goodbye Peavey.
For me, too many variables go into modding the Pro, it might be an expensive experiment. In the right hands, I'm sure it could sound way cooler than the Peavey. |
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Bill L. Wilson
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 1 Sep 2013 11:42 am The Fender Pro Reverb.
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| My '71 Pro Reverb, is the best amp I have for low and medium volume gigs. It was rescued from a dumpster by a friend who traded it to me, for a SS Fender amp w/distortion. The Eminence speakers sound fantastic, and after I glued the baffle board, and the cab. back together, and put a new frame with new grill cloth on it. It's good as new, and when my friend saw it, he asked if it was the same amp. For loud gigs though I use a Session or a Twin w/JBL's. |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 1 Sep 2013 6:34 pm
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If a Pro Reverb isn't loud enough, then put it on a box or a chair and play with the thing about 18 inches behind your back. You'll feel it and hear it PLENTY. Fantastic amp, one of Fenders finest ever.
Power wise, there's a good handful of people using the Little Walter 50 live on stage which is likely also coming in at around 35 to 40 actual watts like a Pro Reverb.
Speaker efficiency is also a major consideration when it comes to the watts•loudness equation.
B |
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 3 Sep 2013 2:17 am
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| Chris Lucker wrote: |
| Just my opinion, but a Pro Reverb is perhaps the greatest guitar amp fender made, so before modifying it I would look to something like a Sho Bud Compactra (tube) or a Christmas Tree (solid state) for a lower power steel amp at a lesser value. I would not mess up a perfectly desirable pro reverb. |
Chris is right. If I could only have one Fender amp, it'd be a Pro Reverb. One of the later models, with that ultralinear transformer. SUPPOSED to be 60 watts. Don't do anything to that Pro Reverb.
And try some of the lower-priced solid state amps out there. There is, or was, a Fender Steel King for sale, for about 300.00. Great amp. I wish I still had mine, but I traded it, a Christmas Tree, and a Session 400, to buy a Webb. Session 400's, Nashville 400's, and that Nashville 112, can all be found cheap, if you've got a day or two to watch for one.
Dam. Me and Lucker agree on something. Can world peace be far behind???  |
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