Volume Pedals

Bill Walker · From: California, USA

hello, Im not a pedal steel player but I play lap steel as a second instrument,
I was asked to evaluate a new pedal from Mission Engineering, the VM-Pro-PZ, it was designed to work with a variety active and passive pickups and it features an excellent onboard buffer circuit. I was intrigued because I switch between acoustic and electric instruments a lot and my passive volume pedal wasn't cutting it. I've done a bit of investigating about what steel players who aren't still rocking vintage Sho-buds or Goodrich pedals are using and I noticed the hand built boutique thing has hit that market as well. I also noticed that quality buffers seem to be popular as well. I'm wondering what steel players are using and why? For me this pedal is a major upgrade and it doesn't attenuate frequencies the way passive volume pedals do. It has a smooth taper and a faster feel than the pedal with the string i've been using, more like a potentiometer on my laps steel . here is a brief demo of me talking about it and using it with my custom lap steel. I'm using palm levers for the crude pedal steel bends, as well as a prototype loop recorder to capture some playing. So the question again is, Whats you favorite volume pedal and why? Thanks for the feedback.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wP5g3weqJs

Bobby Bowman · From: Cypress, Texas, USA, R.I.P.

Telonics,,,because it's the best that I am aware. And I've tried a zillion pedals over the years.
BB
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Ken Metcalf · From: San Antonio Texas USA

Telonics
Because Bobby B plays one.. Very Happy

seems to sound good to me.
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Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

That VM-Pro-PZ looks pretty good to me. You may have discovered a great and affordable alternative volume pedal for steel players. One other common option for top level volume pedal that steel players use is the Hilton pedal. It should do everything you want and is solid and reliable.
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Eric Philippsen · From: Central Florida USA

Telonics.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Hilton now makes a model for guitar players. It works off of 9v like most effects.

I would love to have one of the Telonics, but since I have two Hilton's, I cant justify it.

Bill Walker · From: California, USA

I was aware of both pedals and I must say 300-500 for a volume pedal is a bit rich for my blood, but then I don't play pedal steel and I suppose if that was my main instrument i might feel differently, I noticed also no one seemed to want to elaborate on the why they like the pedal they do, how much does taper and action, build quality and cosmetics play in to it? how much does artist influence factor in? any more weighing in would be appreciated and thanks for the comments

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

As the pedal steel guitar makes use of volume pedal action with nearly every note, build quality and endurance are critical, as well as a low profile to allow the knees to fit under the guitar, and of course the effect upon the audio signal itself.

Since much of the time the pedal is at 50% or less, many of us still prefer the old pot pedals BECAUSE of their high frequency attenuation, as most of the electronic options sound unnaturally thin and brittle at lower levels. The Hilton pedal includes a tone control to compensate for this problem, as well as an adjustment for the "OFF" position of the pedal. The Telonics VP goes a step further by allowing some adjustment of the attenuation curve ("taper"), and both are absolutely clean, i.e. what goes in is what comes out, with added gain if you want it.

A fast action is not necessarily a good thing for steelers, as we use ALL of the curve all night long, and a longer throw yields more precision and smoother swells.

FYI I bought my Hilton VP for considerably less than the cited "$300-$500" but I still use the old pot pedal most of the time because it just sounds real good, and NOT because PF does the same...

Tim Marcus · From: San Francisco, CA

I still think pot pedals sound the best, but they have become increasingly unreliable over the years. The pots currently made only last about a week or two under regular use with pedal steel. I started carrying a soldering kit and a bag of spare pots then said "what the hell am I doing?" and invested in the Telonics pedal.

The Telonics pedal sounds great, is very reliable, and has a few nice features that really sweeten the deal. Sure, $500 may seem outrageous for a volume pedal but if you think about it its a very important piece of your instrument. If you are playing steel 2-3 nights a week and also practicing you should invest in one.

That said, I am leaving on a 3 week tour this morning and I have my Telonics pedal, a pot pedal, whats left of my bag of pots (2) and a soldering kit. Thats how important volume pedals are! Very Happy

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Scott Duckworth · From: Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies

One problem with the VM-Pro-PZ is the jack on the left of the pedal.
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Craig Baker · From: Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.

Bill,
The pedal you've discovered is interesting. Most of the entries into the marketplace fall short for pedal steel players, but the Mission pedal seems worth looking into. Thanks for sharing your "find"

In defense of "the old pot pedal" The POTentiometer is only a voltage divider. It has no effect on frequency. However, what follows it. . . can make a world of difference.

A standard 500,000 ohm pot volume pedal, connected to even a low impedance source, will develop at least 125,000 ohms output impedance while going through it's range of travel. Connecting a length of even the best guitar cord across such a high impedance circuit, makes rolling off high frequencies and even more of the instrument's overtones unavoidable. Since the output of a pot volume pedal is of a constantly varying impedance as the pedal is operated, the amount of high frequency loss is always varying, right along with the volume. This is why many musicians complain of the tone changing from low to high volume. The easiest solution is to use an active pedal with a buffered low impedance output, such as the Hilton, Telonics and Mission. Or connect the output of a pot volume pedal directly (with no cord in-between) to the high impedance input of a good buffer circuit with a low impedance output. (By doing so, you instantly convert your old pot pedal to a active pedal without spending hundreds of dollars.) The clean sound is why the Hilton and Telonics pedals are big hits with serious musicians.

Anyone desiring good audio quality would never use a high impedance microphone. Why on earth is anyone still using a high impedance pickup Or volume pedal without a good buffer immediately following the instrument or pedal? As long as you keep running high impedance, you'll never get to hear how good your guitar can sound.

Good thread !

Best regards,
Craig Baker 706-485-8792

cmbakerelectronics@gmail.com

C.M. Baker Electronics
P.O. Box 3965
Eatonton, GA 31024

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Daniel Morris · From: Westlake, Ohio, USA

Good video, Bob! Now it all makes sense!

Were really good pots still available, I doubt I would've looked at a Telonics pedal. In fact, if long-life pots existed, Dave probably wouldn't have developed his pedal (he told me he tried to have older pots manufactured to old specs, and was told it couldn't be done, so he hit the drawing board). Yes, I'd have liked to keep using that Goodrich (no power supply needed), but the Telonics is just fantastic. And with the options available (which can be updated via computer), I am quite happy with this pedal. That Mission does look good, but playing only pedal steel - with 8 pedals - that left side hookup could be problematic. And a 3" height is greater than either the Telonics or Goodrich (low boy).
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1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amp w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Eventide, Pigtronix.

Dave Beaty · From: Mesa, Arizona, USA

Refer to Missionengineering factory information at:

http://missionengineering.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Mission-VM-PRO-Guide.pdf

Quote follows:

"The rack and potentiometer shaft assembly has been lubricated at the factory. This should be sufficient for at least one year of normal use. If the mechanical action becomes sticky, scratchy or noisy, additional lubrication can be applied. The rack and potentiometer shaft assembly has been lubricated at the factory. This should be sufficient for at least one year of normal use. If the mechanical action becomes sticky, scratchy or noisy, additional lubrication can be applied."

This information indicates that the Mission pedal is a 10K ohm pot pedal with a undefined taper and a somewhat adjustable buffer amplifier.

This is essentially/very close to the earlier buffered Goodrich pedals which have been successfully used by steel players for many, many years.

This factory information also indicates the need for adjustment of the mechanism due to wear and temperature exposure, unlike the Goodrich and Hilton pedals - which are very robust in their design - no plastic, solid aluminum/metal.

It does not seem impressive to issue a new product which lists in its literature - "should be sufficient for at least one year of normal use". If that prediction is accurate, experience would indicate that the intense usage afforded by active steel guitar players will substantially reduce the operational life by a factor of 4-8 to one. These numbers are not encouraging for professional steel guitar usage.
Normally environmental and accelerated life tests are conducted on devices such as this. A reasonable approach in the past has been to down-force load the pedal with 50 pounds of "leg weight", then used a spring-loaded cycling machine with a counter to fully cycle the treadle firmly again it's stops (hard, like dancing on the pedals with both feet), and run it at normal, high and low temperature extremes for 500,000, or 1,000,000 full cycles. If the pot gets noisy, or if mechanical wear problems are encountered........ Itâ€™s back to the drawing board! It remains to be seen what degree of testing has been done on this pedal and what degree of reliability such testing will yield.

Just looking at the factory information, it would seem that a serious steel player would be far better served to spend about the same amount of money on a buffered Goodrich or a Hilton pedal. Both pedals give great operational service, are designed specifically for pedal steel guitar use AND they retain a high percentage of their value. Just a thought for a newbie in the steel field.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Dave was modest in his evaluation. He failed to include the Telonics volume pedal that his company produces.

Daniel Morris · From: Westlake, Ohio, USA

Thanks for all the info, Dave. I was wondering about a Mission pedal as a back-up (rather imperfect with the left side jack), but as I still have 2 Goodrich pedals, I'll pass. Your pedal is first-rate.
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amp w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Eventide, Pigtronix.

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

Dave Beaty is a good guy who loves music and the steel guitar. I would like to tell my good friend Bob Hoffnar he has overlooked something. It is a proven fact ,Bob,that women are attracted to a steel guitar player who has a pedal with a light on it. Dave's pedal has a blue light, and my pedal has a red light. If you are not interested in women use a pedal without a light. If you want women to really notice you, go with proven facts. Women are attracted to steel players who use a pedal with a light on the pedal. Laughing

Bill Duncan · From: Lenoir, North Carolina, USA

Keith,
I didn't know about that study.

Do you sell an aftermarket light kit? I would like to get one for my old MSA pedal.
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George Redmon · From: Muskegon & Detroit Michigan.

Just can't beat the "Industry Standard" Hilton pedal.I heard god was in on the original design of this pedal lol. The more bells and whistles i have, the more confused i git! I have arthritis in both knees and ankles. This pedal and it's taper works best for this old guy. Stay with the proven leader, the Hilton. Razz

Paul Shedden · From: California, USA

Hi ALL. I want to say up front, I am Paul Shedden (VP at Mission Engineering). I am not in any way going to try sell you our pedal, but I would like to answer a couple of questions that seem to be un answered.
The potentiometer in the VM-PRO, and many of the Mission expression pedals, is designed and built to our specifications. The original manufacturer is a large US specialty potentiometer manufacturer that builds Mil Spec and high reliability parts for industry, medical and military use, as well as general electronics. Mission uses US made components where ever possible. The potentiometer is completely sealed and rated at greater than 2 Million cycles. The failure rate of these parts in the three years we have been using them is extremely small, less than .001%. There should not be any reliability problems with this part.

The lubricating instructions in the VM-PRO User Guide just refer to a grease point on the rack and cog assembly and have nothing to do with the potentiometer itself which is a completely sealed unit and requires no maintenance. When the pedal ships from the factory we apply a small lithium grease coating on the rack just to ensure a perfectly smooth operation at the surface to surface contact with the cog. This has nothing to do with any electrical noise from the pot itself which should not occur. We had some questions in the past about whether greasing this point was required as part of regular maintenance, and so we added these details to the User Manual as a reference for people.

I hope you find this information useful

Many Thanks

Paul

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

To Jack Stoner. Actually Jack-- After my cousin Kenny switched from a pedal without a light to one with a light, he said the results were amazing. He said he no longer needed Viagra, or Cialis, plus he had no side effects using the lighted pedal. Kenny claimed the number of women who complemented his playing had trippled in number. I do understand that some may not want more women hanging around the stage. For those guys I do understand. Laughing

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Welcome Paul Shedden. Thanks for joining in. Always good to get direct information. If those pots hold up you may be on to something great.
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Bob

Paul Shedden · From: California, USA

Thank you Bob for the welcome and the reply- much appreciated. I'm a Brit (don't hold it against me lol) and not very good at social media and forums- so hope I did not over step any rules with my post.

We have almost 4 years now of sales/data for these pots and they do definitely hold up Bob.

I love what you guys do with steel guitar by the way- I'm learning guitar at the moment, but a long long way from having the skills to play your genre.

Thanks again

Paul

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

I just ordered the non buffered pedal.
http://missionengineering.com/?product=the-vm-1

I'm looking forward to giving it a workout.
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Bob

Daniel Morris · From: Westlake, Ohio, USA

Thanks for chiming in, Paul.
I think your pedal - especially at its price - would be most useful to pedal steel guitarists if you offered a model with both jacks on the right side.
It's also good to hear straight from a builder - I love my Telonics, but as with Dave Beatty, hearing from the actual manufacturer is probably the best way for folks to decide what's best for them.
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amp w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Eventide, Pigtronix.

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