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Topic: Does this Sho-Bud D-12 need repairs? |
Darryl Hattenhauer
From:
Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 16 Aug 2013 4:00 pm |
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Difficult to tell from the photos.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating, so they say. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 16 Aug 2013 4:03 pm
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I'm not sure you can get a full assessment from just the underside, since the changer remained out of view, and pics might not tell the whole story anyway.
If the rest is as good, I'd get it if you have a strong back.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 16 Aug 2013 4:16 pm
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| I wouldn't buy it without a lot more views but in specific answer to the question, there is nothing that alarms me from the 4 pictures. |
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 16 Aug 2013 5:00 pm Changer?
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Some of those had changers that only had double raise and single lower.
If this is one of those that would lower the value to some people.
There is a lot you could do with a changer like that but also a lot you can not do as far as the tuning goes.
I'd have to see a lot more to know....
That's my 2¢ worth!
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Douglas Schuch
From:
Valencia, Philippines
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Posted 16 Aug 2013 9:08 pm
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I do not see it on Gbase, but is that the one the guitar shop, I think in the NW, is selling? Very pretty guitar, but their price always seemed way overboard. The few I've seen sold seem to go cheaper than equivalent D-10's - just too dang heavy and not very much in demand.
That has two-hole pullers. I've usually seen these set up with barrels on any string that has multiple raises or lowers, but I do not see any barrels. Nor do I see any collars behind the barrels. This means that any string can be raised or lowered, but if there is more than one raise or lower, it will have to be the same note. This is not practical at all.
This can be fixed - just buy barrels from James, Michael, or someone else. You will need one barrel for any of the two-hole pullers the pull rods pass through after the first one. But then you have to tune those barrels under the guitar. Two alternatives: buy barrels for every two-hole puller. Then glue the plastic tuning nuts onto the pull rods. This then works like any other Sho-Bud that uses barrels - turning the nut turns the rod. Any barrel that is engaged then gets adjust when the protruding spring catches on the two-hole puller. You then can tune all pulls at the end plate. The problem is firmly glueing nylon to metal.
The other alternative is buy barrels for every puller, and also replace the pull rods with hex-head pull rods like the earlier Pro II, Professional, and Baldwin used. This is not an insignificant amount, though, so you would need to budget for this.
Doug
_________________
Bringing steel guitar to the bukid of Negros Oriental! |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 16 Aug 2013 9:32 pm
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You can get a head for the rods and screw 'em down tight with loctite. James had suggested that for me, as my guitar will need a mess of em (20?).
The barrels would represent a larger outlay.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Darryl Hattenhauer
From:
Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2013 6:08 am
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Thank you all so much. I bought it without the amp and seat. Douglas, here is the ad: http://www.gbase.com/gear/sho-bud-pro-ii-1970
_________________
Steel crazy after all these years.
$100 reward for info leading to the purchase of a fender D8 white, yellow, or butterscotch. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 17 Aug 2013 9:47 am
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And don't forget to check out the great deal on the Gbase site for a Maverick. Only $1095.00. What a deal.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 17 Aug 2013 9:52 am
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Pretty guitar. I think the amp in the ad was pretty cool.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Andy DePaule
From:
Saigon, Viet Nam & Springfield, Oregon
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Posted 17 Aug 2013 10:21 am A Maverick? Not!
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When I was shopping for my first steel back in 1976 I went to the Guitar Center where they offered to sell me a Used Maverick at a higher price than the new ones cost.
It was not even one of the nicer wood body Mavericks but the one with that Fender style key head and wraparound contact paper. Yuck!
Lucky I'd read Winnie's book and had a better understanding of what I might need.
_________________
Inlaid Star Guitar 2006 by Mark Giles. SD-10 4+5 in E9th; http://luthiersupply.com/instrument-gallery.html
2017 Mullen SD-10, G2 5&5 Polished Aluminum covering. Custom Build for me. Great Steel.
Clinesmith Joaquin Murphy style Aluminum 8 String Lap Steel Short A6th.
Magnatone Jeweltone Series Lap Steel, Circa 1950? 6 String with F#minor7th Tuning.
1956 Dewey Kendrick D-8 4&3, Restoration Project.
1973 Sho~Bud Green SD-10 4&5 PSG, Restoration Project. |
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Ron Pruter
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2013 2:39 pm
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The helper springs pull off to the side a little, on the E9 neck. Something I'd fix. No big deal.
_________________
Emmons SKH Le Grande, '73 Fender P/J bass, Tick tack bass, Regal high strung, USA Nashville 112. |
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Jon Hyde
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2013 8:59 pm
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| Congrats Darryl! It's a beaut! I sat down to this one while it was in the shop in downtown Seattle. It needed some adjusting for sure but it seemed playable. Sounded pretty cool too - will sound a lot cooler with a new set of strings and set up to your liking. I did play the Sho Bud amp too but it had almost no headroom... it had a cool old sound but it wasn't clean sounding! |
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Darryl Hattenhauer
From:
Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2013 9:45 pm
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Thanks, John. It's good to know that there probably won't be any major repairs on this one.
I didn't buy the amp or seat. I didn't even have half of what the asking price was for the whole enchilada.
_________________
Steel crazy after all these years.
$100 reward for info leading to the purchase of a fender D8 white, yellow, or butterscotch. |
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Jon Hyde
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2013 10:11 pm
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| Yeah! I'm betting (having owned too many vintage steels) that this one will want a real serious cleaning at some point but hopefully you can do that on your schedule. I didn't play it much but it's a beauty - love the color. I was immediately thrown off by the 12 strings! I played at it for 10 15 minutes and that was about it. When do you get it? It is a really cool color - classic Sho Bud fade... Still got a cool blue about it. I have an LDG that is almost yellow it's so faded! Great great guitar and about the same vintage as your new one (mine is a 76...). Wouldn't trade that one for anything... |
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Darryl Hattenhauer
From:
Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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Posted 17 Aug 2013 10:24 pm
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I just paid for it today, so it will probably go out Monday and get to me by Friday.
_________________
Steel crazy after all these years.
$100 reward for info leading to the purchase of a fender D8 white, yellow, or butterscotch. |
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Darryl Hattenhauer
From:
Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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Posted 18 Aug 2013 5:15 am
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I just discovered a vid of my steel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-GdsOO9CHg
_________________
Steel crazy after all these years.
$100 reward for info leading to the purchase of a fender D8 white, yellow, or butterscotch. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 18 Aug 2013 5:18 am
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Looks to be the same vintage and faded color as my S-12.
Good luck and good health with it. |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 23 Aug 2013 4:50 am
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| Douglas Schuch wrote: |
That has two-hole pullers. I've usually seen these set up with barrels on any string that has multiple raises or lowers, but I do not see any barrels. Nor do I see any collars behind the barrels. This means that any string can be raised or lowered, but if there is more than one raise or lower, it will have to be the same note. This is not practical at all.
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To add/clarify to what my friend Doug is saying----
Shobud introduced the double/single changer as an improvement in some ways, over the single/single changer. The double single gave a few more possibilities for TIMING pulls. Not better than single/single, just different.
The double raise/single lower changer does not require barrels or metal hex tuners, as the single raise/single lower does. Double raise/single lower changer requires. The Double/single requires nylon tuner equipped pullrods, and the brass rollers in the two-hole pullers in this setup have a set screw to hold the rod fixed and unturnable. Thus the actual tuning occurs with the NYLON tuner threading back and forth on the pulrod, at the changer with a 3/16" socket type tool.
Now the metal hex style pullrods that turns the whole rod(still at the changer with an allen wrench) and actual tuning happens with a BARREL fixed on the rod with a set screw, behind the brass roller( or rack)(and the set screw in the brass roller is not used/tightened in this case, so the pullrod CAN turn). So the threading back and forth occurs with the barrel as the whole rod is turned with an allen wrench at the changer. So, if you tighten the set screw in the brass roller, the rod can't turn to thread in or out at the barrel to cause tuning.
UNLESS you want multiple note possibilities on one particular string, then run a longer metal hex rod through that particular finger to reach past the furthest cross shaft involved and add a barrel behind EACH pull on THAT pullrod for THAT string. The rest of your rods can stay the nylon style. Other than this, switching out all of the nylon for metal hex and barrels is redundent.
The 12 string guitars are very much in demand to those who love extended copedants and universal copedants. But the number of guys playing those copedants are dwarfed by the majority playing 10 strings and double 10's.
Enjoy your cool shobuds!! 
_________________
"Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement"~old cowboy proverb.
shobud@windstream.net |
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Darryl Hattenhauer
From:
Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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Posted 23 Aug 2013 5:33 am
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Thanks, James. I'll save this.
_________________
Steel crazy after all these years.
$100 reward for info leading to the purchase of a fender D8 white, yellow, or butterscotch. |
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Douglas Schuch
From:
Valencia, Philippines
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Posted 23 Aug 2013 6:17 am
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James,
Indeed, the twin raise/single lower means that barrels are not required to get two different raise notes on the same string. But, for whatever reason, the pics I've seen of Sho-Buds, as well as the one I own, did not use it this way.
As for Darryl's new/old D-12, I notice that on the front neck the LKL and Pedal 3 both operate the same string - a raise on string 4, I think. Nothing surprising in this - almost all E9 tunings do this. However, this guitar is using the SAME rod to effect those changes, and there is no barrel. The standard tuning does not pull these to the same note, so I would for sure either add a barrel or rig it with two rods using the dual raise capabilities so I could tune each note independent.
One other point - if you use the use the same rod with rollers without barrels to pull to the same note, when you use one pedal the other will move with it, as they are locked together. This adds the extra pull of the pedal return spring for the extra pedal moving along with any friction from the cross rods turning in the brackets... not very much, I think, but why add extra tension to the pedals?
I currently play Uni - these can get pretty complex pretty fast since you have the pulls of a D-10 on a 12-string. I have three different pedals that pull my string 5 to a C#. I'm not sure I want the drag of two extra pedals and springs. That is why I bought all those barrels and rods from you, James! To get each pull tune-able at the endplate with the flexibility to get the changes I want - and no ghost pedals moving about!
In some ways I am taking my guitar back a step - away from the plastic tuning nuts to the hex-head rods and barrels like the ones a year or prior to my guitar's build (May '75). Well, it just seems a better system to me. You can get by with nylon tuners and barrels for multiple pulls on the same string, but then you are tuning barrels under the guitar. Tuning these beasts seems hard enough as is - why make it harder?
I could be wrong about all of this - I'm still pretty new to Sho-Buds, steel guitars, and pulling systems. Feel free to correct me if I am mistaken on something.
_________________
Bringing steel guitar to the bukid of Negros Oriental! |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 23 Aug 2013 6:33 am
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| Did I miss a conclusive statement about the changer? My S-12 of very similar looking vintage has a double/double changer so, with the existence of single/single, double/ single and double/double, it's tough to draw conclusions about this (unless I missed it). |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 23 Aug 2013 6:38 am
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| Quote: |
| As for Darryl's new/old D-12, I notice that on the front neck the LKL and Pedal 3 both operate the same string - a raise on string 4, I think. Nothing surprising in this - almost all E9 tunings do this. However, this guitar is using the SAME rod to effect those changes, and there is no barrel. |
Yes that's not correct what you are saying/seeing, Douglas.
There is another rod running to the C pedal, under the roller for the LKL crossbar....
Ricky
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Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Douglas Schuch
From:
Valencia, Philippines
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Posted 23 Aug 2013 7:23 am
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Ricky - then I stand corrected - 'cause I sure can't see it under there! But makes sense to do it that way.
I wonder why so many other guitars with this system used the barrels that had to be tuned underneath?
Since mine is getting pedals/levers added to be a Uni, it makes more sense to just go to the barrels and hex-head rods - more than two raises and one lower several places.
Doug
_________________
Bringing steel guitar to the bukid of Negros Oriental! |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 25 Aug 2013 9:06 am
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Douglas this system(changer)was not designed for barrel tuning. It would be the single/single finger that is designed for barrel tuning...and you don't have to tune the barrels from underneath...you tune them by engaging them with a pedal or knee lever and tune the rod at the endplate and that turns the barrel for fine tuning.
Ricky
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Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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