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Topic: Steel Guitar Tone! |
Reece Anderson
From:
Keller Texas USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 15 Jun 2003 10:11 am |
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The discussion/debate concerning tone will continue forever because there is no basis for conclusion, nor will everyone ever agree on a specified procedure which would result in such a conclusion. The tone of any instrument is a matter of opinion relative to the likes and dislikes of each individual listener.
I believe the fact that this subject is ongoing validates my conclusion that there is no “one” sound, and there is no “the” sound. I don’t know of a steel guitar being produced today that does not have what some would consider a great sound, nor do I know of any made in the past that do not have a great sound to many.
It was the inherent characteristics of the steel guitar itself which first grabbed me inside where I live and attracted me to steel guitar. I also believe it is those same characteristics that have attracted most to steel guitar. The more the subject of tone is discussed and debated, the more it validates the fact……there is no valid or definitive answer to this never ending debate.
There’s certainly nothing wrong with loyalty to a specific brand of instrument, and those who continually tout that their instrument of choice has “the” sound, have every right to do so. There are numerous motivations for individual comments, and I believe the motivations of a few, are transparent in the minds of many.
“The” sounds of yesterday were different from “the” sounds of today, just as “the” sounds of tomorrow will be different from “the” sounds of today. What really matters to me is…….it’s a steel guitar making those sounds, and those sounds are inherent with the marvelous characteristics of the instrument. It’s the characteristics of the instrument not the tone, which has provided steel guitar a distinct place in musical history and secures its future.
I believe everyone is an expert, and no one is “the” expert. I have to say, I have never heard a steel guitar I didn’t like.
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Bill Ferguson
From:
Milton, FL USA
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Posted 15 Jun 2003 1:31 pm
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I could not agree with you more Reese. While every player has a different tone, which to me is a good thing, no one can say they have "the" tone. Because there is no "the" tone.
I have played many brands of steels, with different amps on steel shows and I consistantly hear, wow what a great tone you have. So I consider this MY tone.
Each player should develop his tone and it will follow him from steel to steel, amp to amp.
While I consider you and other builders absolute genius's regarding designing and constructing this great instrument we adore, I believe that for the most part, we as players should worry more about what and how we play instead of worrying about all the mechanics of a steel. If I have time to worry about mechanics, I believe that time would be better spent perfecting my playing and tone.
Keep up the good work
Bill Ferguson[This message was edited by Bill Ferguson on 15 June 2003 at 02:41 PM.] |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 15 Jun 2003 1:35 pm
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Reece, I think what you're tring to say is that it comes down to a matter of personal taste, and tone like beauty, is in the ear of the beholder.
Personally I like the deep mellow woody tone of my MSA and prefer it over the bright twangy tone of some of the other brands. |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 15 Jun 2003 1:41 pm
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Reese - Thanks for starting this topic. I have often wondered who was appointed the "Grand Definer Of Good Tone". Is there only one tone that all instruments should emulate? If so, why is that so? In the guitar world we have so many different tones. Does my early 60's Gretsch sound better than my friend's early 60's Fender? No, of course not. Does it sound good? You're darn right it sounds good. So does his Fender. Another buddy has a great old Gibson that sounds wonderful. Does it sound better than the Gretsch and the Fender. No.
Why should there be only one tone that all steel guitars should produce in order to be approved by the "Grand Definer Of Good Tone"?
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Lee, from South Texas
Down On The Rio Grande
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 15 Jun 2003 1:44 pm
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If the player himself is happy and satisfied with the tone he has on his steel than that is "THE" tone for him, regardles of age,brand,price or color of the guitar.
just my 2 cents
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Dr. Hugh Jeffreys
From:
Southaven, MS, USA
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Posted 15 Jun 2003 2:05 pm
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| For Reese: I too agree, however, I've had many eMails asking en re my tone, and, as I've said several times before here, the first thing I do with a new steel (or guitar) is to re-wire capacitors between the pickups and amp connections to produce a more mellow sound; also playing with my bare finger tips helps as well as picking strings AWAY from the pickup. HJ |
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Reece Anderson
From:
Keller Texas USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 15 Jun 2003 2:39 pm
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Bill F….Thank you for your comments. There’s players everywhere who are getting a good tone on all makes and models of instruments both old and new. There’s no doubt their efforts are admired and appreciated by many.
I also agree with you in that too many players worry about things other than actually learning to play, which in most cases flattens the learning curve.
Mike P….The most important thing is, you’re happy with you’re sound. And I might add, I think the sound you get is exceptional.
Lee B….I agree with your assessment, there is no such person as a “Grand Definer Of Good Tone”, and I’ll add to that by saying, no such person will ever exist.
Damir B….You’re 2 cents worth is right on the money….pardon the pun.
Dr. Hugh J....I'm an admirer of your playing ability, musical knowledge and you're entire approach. I think it's very kind of you to provide re-wiring information which is unique to your tone and style of playing. Thank you for sharing.
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Don Olson
From:
Muscatine,Ia. USA
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Posted 15 Jun 2003 4:51 pm
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| Your right Reece our tone is in our head.I've never really liked a new Guitar or Amp until I get it to sound like the old Guitar or Amp I had. |
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Reece Anderson
From:
Keller Texas USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 15 Jun 2003 6:53 pm
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| Don O....Good point. I believe no matter what make or model instrument one plays for an extended period, we adjust our playing to the instrument and soon achieve identifiable individual sound characteristics which are unique to each of us. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 15 Jun 2003 7:04 pm
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| That has been my experience too. I "hate" every new guitar I get for the first week or so, after which I finally figure out "how" to play it so it speaks to me the way I want it to, and I can achieve "my" tone from it. It's a very subtle, and unconscious, thing. I'm not "trying" to do anything especially, but I think I gradually end up adjusting my attack, bite, etc., with maybe a little amp tweaking, and voila! "Acceptable Tone" emerges! |
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Jeff A. Smith
From:
Angola,Ind. U.S.A.
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Posted 15 Jun 2003 7:46 pm
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Well Jim, when the airline lost your guitar and you had to find your way around on an available Fulawka for a set in Grand Rapids, MI. recently -- with a strange copedent to boot -- the tone was rich, smooth, and polished. Apparently acceptable results can be had in less than a week (at least to outside ears) when the pressure's on. 
Just to split hairs a bit on the tone question, I think there are two very distinct dimensions to it:
1. How appropriate is the tone in relation to the musical context and player's style? Not every context and playing style (to me anyway) invites a striking tone which draws dramatic attention to itself, and away from the music itself. Like a painter who is aware of all the different elements of composition in a painting, and of necessity chooses to emphasize certain elements -- since all elements cannot simultaneously be emphasized -- a musician may or may not feel it is appropriate to constantly remind the listener of what a high-quality, elegant instrument he has.
2. Is it possible to speak qualitatively of an instrument's basic sound signature, divorced from musical style and context? I believe it may be, at least to a certain extent. For example, I think it would be possible to program a machine to reproduce particular tones in a robotic, impartial manner. I have to believe in the possibility that humans, animals, (and perhaps even plants  would react more positively upon repeated exposure to some basic tones over others.
Sorry if I'm introducing a slightly contrary viewpoint, that's not my intention.
[This message was edited by Jeff A. Smith on 15 June 2003 at 08:59 PM.] |
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 15 Jun 2003 7:58 pm
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| Good Post, Reece, and it needed saying.....al |
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Wayne Cox
From:
Chatham, Louisiana, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 15 Jun 2003 8:27 pm
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It strikes me as strange that I never encounter any discussion on what I consider is the main factor in what makes one steel or steel player sound different from one person to another;a person's hearing. Maybe I should start a separate thread on this,because I totally agree with Maurice,that the issue of tone will never be settled. It is a well established fact that,in general,women have a higher frequency range in their hearing range than most men. However, within the male gender there is a wide range of hearing differences. This one thing,alone,could be used to prove Reece's point,but then we add in the hundreds of other variables which affect what we perceive we hear,and it begins to smack of infinity. Think of it! It is actually less likely that any two people would perceive the same tone from a given instrument or player,than for two people to hear the same sound in exactly the same way as each other. Even if a dozen of us sat around and listened to Buddy Emmons and all agreed that he got a great tone,does that mean we all heard exactly the same thing;no!
~~W.C.~~ |
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Leslie Ehrlich
From:
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
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Posted 16 Jun 2003 12:51 am
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In all my years of playing the electric guitar, I've found that the four key determinants of 'tone' are
1) Pickups
2) Amplifiers
3) Speakers
4) Playing technique
Guitar construction plays a minor role in shaping the tone of an instrument. If I dump a humbucker into a Strat, it's not going to sound much different than a Les Paul, all other factors being equal.
The pedal steel guitar has even less acoustic properties than the electric guitar. Most of the string vibration is absorbed by the changer fingers and rollers. So I'm in no hurry to run out and buy an Emmons P/P or a Sho-Bud Professional. If I wanted something different and money was no object, I'd buy a new steel - the technology just keeps getting better and better.
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Johan Jansen
From:
Europe
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Posted 16 Jun 2003 3:09 am
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Reece, you are right!
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 Click on the pic!
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 16 Jun 2003 3:58 am
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Yes Reece, I fully agree.. well stated.
Those that like a specific Steel with a tone that they feel is the only answer for them should play that steel. but that doesn't mean it's the Steel for me ..or you..whatever..
I play a Steel with the brand name that starts with "C" , some folks tell me over the internet by EMAIL that my Steel obviously has no tone !
Now thats a hell of an Internet connection don't ya think ?
By the way I recently had an old Classic D12 MSA , it really had great tone but I couldn't lift it !
Stay well
TP
Oh yeh..My Chevy is faster than your Ford...
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Jackie Anderson
From:
Scarborough, ME
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Posted 16 Jun 2003 4:19 am
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My thanks also to Reece for his observations. Whatever each player makes of them with amp adjustments and hands, the inherent differences in the sounds of various instruments and amps are fascinating, and all add to the richness of the steel family. Even if a huge proportion of players preferred one particular combination, that still would not make it the "best." In fact, it might not even have its appeal if there were not other steel sounds for comparison. Indeed, psychological studies have shown that, in general, the greatest sense of pleasure comes not from any constant stimulus, but from the contrasts among relatively small changes in stimuli.
Also, Wayne brought up an excellent point: the key to our personal preferences being in our ears, much of the difference among preferences may be due to physiological differences in our hearing. I know that I have some high frequency "roll off," and that's probably why, though I love the rich sounds of my Sho-Buds, it's my Fender that really sounds the most "alive" to me. |
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Reece Anderson
From:
Keller Texas USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 16 Jun 2003 5:58 am
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| Its wonderful to see considerate, dignified, interesting and intellectual comments. I appreciate them very much as I'm sure many of you do as well. I look forward to further contributions to this thread by others. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 16 Jun 2003 6:27 am
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Tone is also in the way the amp is set.
Recently, somebody came over to my house with a Carter. Now on those occasions when I've sat down at other people's Carters, with their amps and amp settings, that as a matter of personal taste, I found them brighter and twangier than I prefer. But through my system, EQ'd the way
I like, it sounded beautiful.
On another recent occasion I did a couple of gigs with a borrowed Peavey Nashville 400 amp with the LaMay mod. Normally I use a Music Man HD212 with two 12's rather than one 15. After I adjusted the controls, I got my usual tone. It may have been a little different, but basically my sound was there. |
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Tony Harris
From:
England
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Posted 16 Jun 2003 7:33 am
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Great topic! A comment and a question: I recently recorded with a few different lap steels at home - a Fender Champ (single pickup), a Fender Stringmaster (Two pickups), a Wyseaki (custom built with one pickup) and a Selmer with one big pickup. In each case I EQ'd my POD to get the tone I liked. Listening to these recordings a year later, I find I've tweaked four different-sounding guitars to sound almost the same - I was chasing 'my' favourite tone no matter which guitar I was playing! I can hardly tell which guitar which used on which track.
Question: I think I'm chasing the pedal-steel 'tone' from a non-pedal guitar - do you agree there is a difference? (Due to mass of body etc.) Thanks. |
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Rick Collins
From:
Claremont , CA USA
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Posted 16 Jun 2003 7:49 am
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| Quote: |
| I have to say, I have never heard a steel guitar I didn’t like. |
I agree with Reece; I too, consider myself the Will Rogers of steel guitar. I've never heard a steel guitar I didn't like. Heck, I think that I've never met a "steeler" that I didn't like. Even Mike Perlowin is a pretty good guy;___just kidding Mike.
For sure, there is no "best" sound of all steel guitars. However, I do believe that the Emmons push-pull does have a more "pronounced" distinction in tone than most pedal steel guitars. That said, this tone may not be for everyone. As a matter of fact, many may even dislike it.
I have yet to hear the distinctive "moan" of the bakelite Rickenbacher. This is not to say that it doesn't exist;___I have not experienced it.
Another "distinction" which I've experienced in nonpedal guitars, is in the Stringmasters by Fender. The tone of the 26" scale is quite "distinctive" from the 22 & 1/2" and the 24 & 1/2" scale models; ...slants difficult on the 26" scale? Yes, but you do what you must to be on fret.
Rick
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 16 Jun 2003 9:55 am
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I use different guitar/amp combinations for different kinds of music. The tone requirements of country are different from those of rock, which are in turn different from blues. Jazz is a whole nuther world, tone wise.
If there's a steel guitar/amp combination that sounds "right" in all kinds of music, I've yet to hear it.
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 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax |
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Del Mullen
From:
Flagler Co. USA
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Posted 16 Jun 2003 10:09 am
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Hello Reese
I don't believe anyone could have explained this is issue any better. Tone is a personal preference just as what is your favorite color. Keep up the good work.
Del Mullen
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Paul Graupp
From:
Macon Ga USA
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Posted 16 Jun 2003 11:51 am
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Reece: As always......
Regards; Paul |
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Gary Preston
From:
Columbus, Ohio, USA
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Posted 16 Jun 2003 12:34 pm
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hi reece i think i've been openionated about a certain brand of steel as well as other pickers ( and i admit it ) but i went to a steel show in columbus,ohio a week ago and i saw and heard ''sho-bud'',''clark''
''emmons''''zums''''carter''''sierra''and
''williams'' and so on, and i also have come to the conclusion it's not the guitar but ''the player'' and i'm being as honest as i can . i heard many styles of pickers and they all sounded great and i think i can honetsly say that my ''eyes''were opened and i think there are many good steel guitar builders and i applaud you all. thank you . G.P.
[This message was edited by Gary Preston on 16 June 2003 at 01:34 PM.] |
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