Push/pull adjustment basics ?

Olli Haavisto · From: Jarvenpaa,Finland

I promised to try to adjust my friend`s SD-10 pp. It`s not totally out of whack so no major surgery is probably not needed.
I`d like to know the things to NOT do and what would be the best way to start.
All advice is very much appreciated!
Also, there are several PP guides on the net. Which would be the best for a PP beginner but a fairly experienced all pull adjuster.
Thanks in advance,

Olli

PS The guitar is a 1978 model....
_________________
Olli Haavisto
Finland

richard burton · From: Britain

Don't adjust the collars unless there is no alternative.

Take a good long look at it and observe how it works.

Don't make any adjustments until you're fully acquainted with the mechanism, as the law of unintended consequences could have been invented for the push-pull

Eric Philippsen · From: Central Florida USA

I'll definitely second what Richard said in his post.

I'd also add that if you find yourself looking at the undercarriage and saying, "Oh, this looks pretty easy. I don't see what guys are so cautious about", then you are starting off in a bad way. The problem is that when you adjust "point A" then it often affects "point D, E, G & K", too. Pretty soon you find you've got a mess.

Of course, many do adjust their own Emmons and do it well, too. But I think everyone agrees that you have to be careful and work slowly.

I consider myself mechanically inclined, yet all my p/p's go to a guru.

Abe Levy · From: California, USA

I'm not super experienced, but I work on my D10 and a friends too. I would say the two most imortant things to remember are: tune the changer first - by pushing the fingers with your hand and making sure theyre traveling all the way. Secondly, be sure to leave enough slack at the first collar on the 4th string. This is super important as you will be chasing your tail for hours if it's wrong. Seems like 1/8-1/4 inch is about right.

I still spend a lot of time doing things a few times before I getnit right, but it's super fun to work on them and figure it all out!

Good luck,

Abe

chris ivey · From: california (deceased)

click the sticky...first post top of on this category.

or check wilderness guide to push pull by john lacey.

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

The Wilderness Guide is good. Also consider getting B. Seymour's video. I learned things from both.

As has been said, tune the changer first.

For any given string that has both raises and lowers, set the lowers first. Then set the raises making sure to leave enough slack on the raises so the lowers aren't effected.

For any given pedal or lever, set the string with the longest travel first. Then set the pedal or lever stop. Once that is properly set you can install the rest of the changes for that pedal or lever, making sure that all changes hit the cabinet or end plate at the same time.

Finally, don't use so many springs. I don't have any springs on the longest travel change of any pedal or lever. And when I use springs on the shorter travel changes, they are as short as possible. I hate spongy feeling pedals and levers.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Clem Schmitz wrote a great little book about pp set up. The Emmons company may have some copies.
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Bob

Olli Haavisto · From: Jarvenpaa,Finland

How can I adjust the sideways angle of the kneelevers. It`s hard to even start on working on the guitar because of the angles are so different from mine...
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Olli Haavisto
Finland

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

Adjusting angles on knee levers is easy and would be a good place to start.

Each knee lever has a rod that passes through the lever and connects to a bell crank, etc, until another rod pushes or pulls on the changer. On the rod that passes through the lever there will be a collar, close to the knee lever. Simply loosen the set screw on the collar and reposition the collar so the lever as at the angle you desire.

It's harder to explain than to do.

Olli Haavisto · From: Jarvenpaa,Finland

The KL in question is the LL and it is attached to the cross shaft with a screw that goes into the threads in the shaft. Will I mess everything up if I move the collar that activates the pulls. That would change the angle of the KL.
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Olli Haavisto
Finland

Jim Eaton · From: Santa Susana, Ca

With the guitar in the case and the kl's folded flat as if you were going to close the case, look at the part of the KL attached to the cross rod and see if there is a small screw that can be adjusted to change the "hang angle" of the KL before you move any collars!
Jim Palenscar has put these on all my PP's and unless you know where to look, with the lever folded flat, you would never know they were there.
JE:-)>
_________________
Emmons D10PP 8/4 -75'
Emmons S-10PP 3/4 - 79'
Emmons S-12PP 3/4 -78'
MSA Legend SD12 5/5 -06'
Mullen S-12 4/5 - 1986
Nashville 112 x2 W/Knob Guards - Don't leave home with out one!
Walker SS rack system - 12"BW's
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Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

Olli: I'm 99% certain the answer is no, you won't mess anything up. If you could post a picture we could probably get to 100% certainty.

Sven Kontio · From: Sweden

As far as the booklet by Clem Schmitz that Bob mentions, you can order it directly from Clem at freedomsauce@comcast.net

/Sven

richard burton · From: Britain

I've found a photo of a knee lever arrangement similar to Olli's, and the angle of the knee lever can be altered by moving the collars (arrowed).

Move both collars by the same amount, say, 2 millimetres.
If one of them has the half-tone tuner, that will give you a little bit of leeway on the positioning of the collars

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

Seeing Richard's photo reminds me: You probably will have to also adjust the lever stop so the travel of the lever is correct for the change. That's also not a big deal.

If the stop is an L bracket that the lever stops against, there will be an allen head screw on the L bracket. Just loosen the nut securing the allen head screw, make the travel adjustment and retighten the nut.

Don't forget to adjust the stop to the travel of the longest change.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Couldn't you loosen the screw that clamps the lever to the shaft? I haven't seen my push-pull in 23 years, but I thought it had round shafts. I can see a cap screw at the bottom of the picture. If you can get an Allen wrench in there, loosen it, rotate lever to the desired point and retighten.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

On my PP, the cross shafts have a flat face. They are not total round. Also, the cross shafts have been tapped and threaded and the cap screw that secures the lever to the cross shaft goes all the way through the shaft. It's very secure, but one can't adjust the lever angle from there.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Ahh. Damn burglars. If I still had my guitar, I'd have known that.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Sven Kontio · From: Sweden

Normally the cross shafts are not drilled and threaded. That has probably been done after delivery from the Emmons factory. ItÂ´s not a bad thing, it really secures the lever to the cross shaft. But as for OlliÂ´s friendÂ´s guitar there might not be any holes on the cross shafts.

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