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Topic: '' I Know But It Appears That Some Dont '' !!! |
Gary Preston
From:
Columbus, Ohio, USA
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Posted 1 Aug 2013 10:06 am |
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  This shouldn't be hard for anyone that has been a musician for any period of time ! Some has asked this ! Is there a difference in playing the '' Melody of a song and playing a Scale '' ? As i said this should be a '' No Brainer '' !!! But to some it is confusing ! I'm sure i will get some great replies ! G.P.  |
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 1 Aug 2013 10:47 am
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Well, Gary, when you get to "Do, a Deer..." from "The Sound of Music" it can get a little confusing.
_________________
Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
www.musicfarmstudio.com |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 1 Aug 2013 10:56 am
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Gary, this is just my own personal opinion so here goes. I think playing the melody of a tune is essential to play an instrumental, especially, the first verse and maybe the chorus. A good example is David Hartley. You can always recognize the song he's playing and he is a big stickler on playing melody. Scale work is also useful in, say, taking a ride or playing an instrumental. I call it hokem and there is a difference. Playing true melody is not always easy and I know some good pickers that never play true melody that just use scale work and are really good at it. I'm guilty of playing scale work on songs that I don't know real good and faster songs that are really ripping. Playing scales is just easier. I play fiddle also and same thing applies to fiddle. I'm not a professinal musician but have been playing Opry type shows for 30 plus years. I think the people in the audience appreciate true melody of most songs more that just scale work to match the cords. Again, JMHO
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Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 1 Aug 2013 10:59 am
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To me, there is a difference. I associate a scale with having the notes played sequentially. A melody uses scale tones in a deliberate order, not necessarily in sequential order, and may also have notes that are a sharp or flat of the scale tone.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Gary Preston
From:
Columbus, Ohio, USA
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Posted 1 Aug 2013 4:12 pm '' We Are Getting There Already ''
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 Keep the ideas coming please ! G.P. |
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Joseph Barcus
From:
Volga West Virginia
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Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
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Posted 2 Aug 2013 9:22 am
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Deviation from the melody is OK as long as it remains recognizable to the listener.
_________________
"FROM THEN TIL' NOW" |
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Gary Preston
From:
Columbus, Ohio, USA
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Posted 2 Aug 2013 10:04 am
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Well put Gene !
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David Nugent
From:
Gum Spring, Va.
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Posted 4 Aug 2013 3:53 am
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| Playing the entire melody at least one time through clearly and then improvising is a sound approach IMO. Doug Jernigan's playing is an excellent example of this method. Listen to his version of, 'I'll Fly Away'. First time through the verse and chorus are played very simply with the melody clearly defined, another instrument takes a cut,then Doug lets loose with a cascade of blistering single note licks that few but him can execute. |
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Howard Steinberg
From:
St. Petersburg, Florida , USA
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Posted 4 Aug 2013 6:04 am
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Play the head - take some solos -play the head again to go out. It's a concept that has been around for a long time.
I think a lot of us learned to play steel in a manner that enabled us to become familiar with songs based on the role of the steel as an "icing on the cake," instrument. We learned the changes for a given tune, how to back up a singer, when to play, etc. I for one, and I'm sure others, have played a lot of tunes that we knew changes, fills, intros and outros but not the melody, obviously because it was the singer's or other instrument's role.
That said, play the melody. I see no problem with embellishing the melody tastefully using knowledge of scales and chords. Nothing says "I really don't know this tune" like noodling ones way through a set of changes without stating the melody. Learning the melody of a given tune, in my experience, is a great exercise which aides in better understanding the instrument. It also sounds better.
_________________
Justice Pro Lite (4-5), Justice D-10 (8-5)x2 , Quilter Steelaire, Hilton Pedal, BJ's bar. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 4 Aug 2013 6:22 am
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Rocky top: 5,5,5,5,6,6,5,3,1 (or "you're the reason God made Oklahoma": that's why the Bryants got the royalties)
That's NOT the scale. All the notes are IN the scale, but you won't find that melody by running the scale (all I get by running the scale is a $375.00 ticket. Trucker humor)
That fill in the recitation part of Mel Tillis' "I Got The Hoss": 1,2,3,4,5,4,3,2,1,2,3,4,5,4,3,2,1 ad nauseum.
I dunno if you'd call that a melody, but it's damn sure a scale.
Does that address your original question?
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 4 Aug 2013 6:33 am
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Playing scales as long linear transportation devices can get pretty dull, but
when you break 'em into scale fragments, whoowie!
Try this:
1-2-3, 2-3-4, 3-4-5, 4-5-6 -> ascending triplets going up
3-2-1, 4-3-2, 5-4-3, 6-5-4 -> descending triplets going up
1-2-3-4, 2-3-4-5, 3-4-5-6 -> ascending 4's going up
4-3-2-1, 5-4-3-2, 6-5-4-3 -> descending 4's going up
8-7-6, 7-6-5, 6-5-4, 5-4-3- > descending triplets going down
8-7-6-5, 7-6-5-4, 6-5-4-3 -> descending 4's going down
1-3-5, 2-4-6, 3-5-7, 4-6-8-> ascending chord triplets going up
5-3-1, 6-4-2, 7-5-3, 8-6-4, (9)-7-3-> descending chord triplets going up
1-3-5-7, 2-4-6-8, 3-5-7-9-> ascending chord 4's going up
(10)-8-6-4, (9)-7-5-3, 7-5-3-1 -> descending chord 4's going down
I'm leaving some out....
And 2'sies skipping various intervals:
1-3, 2-4 , 3-5->
1-4, 2-6, 3-7->
It's called “harmonizing in ~blank~â€
it'll work in 3rds, 4ths, 5ths and 6ths, primarily.
Ascending intervals going up
descending intervals going up
ascending intervals going down
descending intervals going down
Oughta keep you out of the bars and the fridge, for a few hours at least... 
Last edited by David Mason on 7 Aug 2013 7:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
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Posted 4 Aug 2013 6:47 am
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Very nice Dave!
Gary - Melody are pieces of scales put together to make a "statement". IMHOP
_________________
Just 'cause I look stupid, don't mean I'm not. |
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Gary Preston
From:
Columbus, Ohio, USA
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Posted 4 Aug 2013 3:27 pm
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| Very good Bud . I agreed with some of you . Create the '' MELODY '' as best you can so everyone knows exactly what you are playing . Afterward you can have a little fun trying to confuse everyone by playing God knows what ! This is good guys ! Keep going if you feel like it . I have heard some people try to play in a jam setting where you couldn't recognize anything they were trying to play ! Try to follow that when it comes your turn to play ! If i am playing with other players i won't play the song with the same string combination . Like together again . Mostly played with the three and five strings . I always try to get others to use their head and try to play the same song with different string combinations , It's not that to do in my opinion ! |
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Alan Tanner
From:
Near Dayton, Ohio
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Posted 4 Aug 2013 5:05 pm
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| I think nothing shows "I dont know this tune" or "I cant play this tune" more than non-directional wood shedding or a hopeless attempt to "cover" by mushing a few notes and chords on the instrumental part.... |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 4 Aug 2013 5:28 pm
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What about those songs that utterly resist all attempts to find an inspiration?
I know that George's" I Always Get Lucky With You" has been frustrating for me. I've never once played a ride I've been happy with. There are others, but that one sticks in my head.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 4 Aug 2013 5:41 pm
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Two more to me Lane are, Bamby the Rodeo Clown and Sweet home Alabama , LOL
_________________
Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 4 Aug 2013 7:07 pm
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Some music kind of sucks. I know, you're not supposed to say it out loud, etc.
60-year-old men "jamming the blues" - in 2013? Oh why....
I wanna make a music instructional video - "Guitar Faces for Old People!" - gotta sneak up on that stuff carefully or risk serious injury, you know. |
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Joseph Barcus
From:
Volga West Virginia
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Bill L. Wilson
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 4 Aug 2013 9:13 pm Playin' the Melody!
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| Every once in a blue moon, by some miracle of science in my brain. A Melody Springs forth from my Emmons, into my amp, and out to the audience. At which time all band members will look at me, and wonder, WHAT JUST HAPPENED? |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 5 Aug 2013 2:01 am
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| Henry Matthews wrote: |
| Two more to me Lane are, Bandy [FTFY] the Rodeo Clown and Sweet home Alabama , LOL |
I'm with you on Sweet Home, but I love Bandy. I either hit the I pedals up, dropping two frets and adding the D# lever for the ii or pedals down for I, drop two frets and hit the ii with A pedal (and walk the root down in cliché fashion: 10A, 10AX, 10, 10X, where X is the A# lever. That move is a cliché because it works).
Joseph, I'm mostly with you on the speed stuff, but it depends on where and how you use it.
Crawford got away with it because he knew where to put it, just like Jernigan or Maness. Or Weldon. I'll Come Running didn't detract at all, IMO.
I used to think I didn't like fast picking in general, but then I heard how much I do it, but generally only in places where it belongs.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Gary Preston
From:
Columbus, Ohio, USA
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Posted 5 Aug 2013 8:44 am
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| In my opinion the best thing to do is to play the melody . When you do this the rest of the band knows exactly what the song is and are comfortable playing with you ! There isn't anything wrong with playing some kind of tasteful scale or whatever you are feeling at the time in your band . I use the term everyone knows '' keep it simple '' and make everyone happy ! If you are in a band that works out the songs you do you can go out on a limb as long as the rest of the musicians know what you are doing ! In a jam i suggest that you play the melody . The band is mostly thrown together and never work with you , so be a good boy and play it like it should be played . |
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Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
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Posted 5 Aug 2013 5:22 pm
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"Whistle" it thru the steel.
_________________
Just 'cause I look stupid, don't mean I'm not. |
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Clyde Mattocks
From:
Kinston, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 5 Aug 2013 7:11 pm
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The players who impress me most are the ones who convince me that they could play the melody note for note if they wanted to, and go on from there to make a "suggestion" of the melody interesting.
_________________
LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Fender Twin Tone Master, Session 400, Harlow Dobro, R.Q.Jones Dobro |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 6 Aug 2013 1:42 pm Scale and a melody...the same thing?
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Uhh sometimes...the melody is a scale!
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