Anyone Play U-12 And D-10 Steels?

Douglas Schuch · From: Valencia, Philippines

I am curious who plays both Universal and D-10. If you do, what problems do you have going between them. I can, of course, see the potential problems - getting lost due to extra (or fewer) strings, or the different placements of strings.

If you play both, do you try to keep the coped very similar? Have you adapted either in ways to make the transition easier?

If you gig, which do you usually use for a gig? Which would you take if you had a really big gig where you wanted to sound your best?

Thanks!
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Paul Redmond · From: Illinois, USA

I have played "both" since 1985. I now play mostly 10-string short-Uni setups which throws a third factor into the equation.
In answer to your question, I have never had a problem jumping from one guitar to another or yet another. But then I repair them all the time and am playing kazillions of "other" copedants all the time. I guess I've just gotten used to focusing on what guitar I'm using at the time and blocking out all others. Yes, I do have similar copedants on all 12 of my guitars....in other words, there is a common thread on all of them re: copedants.
PRR

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Not anymore, but I have in the past for 4 or 5 yrs. at a time.

Yes, copeds pretty much the same. I tuned the D10 C neck down to B to keep it on the same fret as Uni. Small adjustment with string arrangement switching back and forth, but not bad at all once I did it for a while.

Actually I was playing D10, U12 and U14 all in the same periods. You can get used to most anything if you set your mind to it.

As to which one to take out, no favorites. I would just pick one at random depending on what I was doing.

Dave O'Brien · From: Florida and New Jersey

Yes I switch back and forth all the time depending on the venue. But I have an Emmons setup (Sierra chart)on my U-12 not the Newman thing so it's similar to my Emmons D-10.
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Dave O'Brien
Emmons D-10, CMI D-10, Fender Deluxe Reverb, PV 112, Fender Pro Reverb
www.myspace.com/daveobrienband

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I do. I was very comfortable going back and forth. right now, my 12 string is in pieces on the workbench.
Because my double neck has seven levers with two of them working on both necks, the setups are very different from each other. This is not really a problem, because I can tell just by looking at I am playing a 12 string vs a double 10. when I had two double tens, neither had the same setup, but I did not have a problem playing either, sometimes in the same hour at home.
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Douglas Schuch · From: Valencia, Philippines

Dave, I have an Emmons setup on my Uni, although no pedal 4 (it's on an additional lever if I want to lock the E's in the lowered position and move my leg over). It would make playing a D-10 easier, I think, than if I had Jeff's coped. Paul - thanks for the info. 12 guitars??? Wow! I've read a little about the 10-string Unis (maybe your posts?), but like the range of tones the 12 string gives.... I know when I started on an E9 S-10, I thought there was good potential for more bass, as a Uni or Ext E9 offers.

I'd like to try playing a D-10, but not too likely anytime soon since there are not any nearby.

Lane - I knew you had gone to a completely different setup from your D-10. I did not realize you were back playing your Zum again (although I guess I read where you were adding some gloss to your uni). But guys like you and Jerry have my admiration - sure, someone might go from a guitar to a mandolin to a banjo (I played all three a little as a teen) - all with different tunings. But steel has so many different things happening simultaneously - coordinating feet, knees, and hands that if you have to "think" about it, it's too late.

My recently acquired fixer-upper Sho-Bud had the lever to lower the E's on RKL, and while I liked the idea, I could not play it without hesitating and thinking a second (or, just as often, hitting the LKR and wondering why it did not sound right!). So, I put them LKR to match my other steel.

I should tune string 3 down to C#, lock E's in, and try playing it with the setup a D-10 would have (1/2 step lower still) just to see if having the normal string progression for D-10 feels that different.... Just thought of it - should have done it before.

OK, any others out there who go back and forth from a Uni to a D-10?
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Bringing steel guitar to the bukid of Negros Oriental!

Robert Parent · From: Gillette, WY

Yes, I play both without any problem in switching between the two. It takes 5-10 minutes of playing after which I don't even think about which I am actually playing. The 12 string is setup as an Universal and the D-10's are E9th and C6th.

Robert

Dave O'Brien · From: Florida and New Jersey

Doug - My first U-12 had the E-Eb on the RKL I played it like that for a long time and being an old Sho-Bud guy it was no problem. But when I picked up my first Emmons push-pull I set it up like that because I didn't want change a push pull setup. Very happy with the E-Eb on the LKR it just feels natural to flat the E's moving my knee over to the B6 pedals anyway. Newman - no thanks! Maybe ok for a guy who just plays just one guitar.

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Dave O'Brien
Emmons D-10, CMI D-10, Fender Deluxe Reverb, PV 112, Fender Pro Reverb
www.myspace.com/daveobrienband

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Doug, it doesn't take any particular skill to switch off, if it did I couldn't have done it. Embarassed

It was just a matter of rote, muscle memory and acclimation. After doing it for a while, it was something I did without thinking.

I sold my last U14 about 3 yrs. ago, so there's no way I could do it now without some heavy woodshedding.

Tuning the back neck of the D10 to B worked very well for me when transitioning between the two also.

Douglas Schuch · From: Valencia, Philippines

Dave - that coped you give is very similar to mine, except mine drops pedal 4, and puts it on a knee lever that is only available if I lock in the B6 tuning and move my knee over. I thought I might use that setup, but as it is it seems enough of a reach to reach the A+B pedals and still hit the LKR, then also get all the way over for the boo-wah at the end. So, for now I've settled on a 7-pedal layout.

Pedal 8 also lowers the E's, and drops the 2-string to a C#, so it is closer to a normal C6 tuning (still down 1/2 a step, and pedal "4" being on LKL when it is locked). A few minor differences - my RKR gets the D, but then goes on for the C# if I don't have the B6 locked. And the LKV goes on for G# and pulls string 2 to an E.

Jerry - I've thought about tuning the back neck to B6 if I decide to get a D-10 and give it a whirl. It would be probably a couple of years before I get to that point, though, so I might have totally different ideas by then, or have completely embraced the Uni tuning.

I'm betting there are still others out there who play both.

Doug
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