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Topic: Newb Question |
Jeff Metz Jr.
From:
York, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 11 Jul 2013 10:37 pm |
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However comfortable I get with playing The steel, Tuning however is another issue entirely.
I am unsure about a couple of things. Say someone that knows what they are doing tunes my guitar. The open strings are in tune and the Raises/lowers are in tune. If I were to break a string would the raises and lowers still remain once I tune the new string up to pitch? Another question...If I bought A peterson stroboflip, would it help a lot? I know there are controversies over Just intonation and Equaled Temperment. I Just need a pretty basic instruction on tuning the steel. I would assume it goes, Tune all the open strings. THen Tune each pedal and each knee lever. Sorry if this has been discussed a million times, and Im sorry if Its confusing. I just don't want to put my steel more out of tune by experimenting and then be frustrated with out of tune chords.
Thank you all.
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Mullen G2 SD10 , Lil Izzy Buffer, Goodrich 120 volume pedal, Boss DD-7, Peterson Strobo flip, Peavey Nashville 112 |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 11 Jul 2013 11:25 pm
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The changes will MOSTLY still be in tune, if the following hold true:
1: the new string has the same size as the old (for wound strings, core size matters, but most use the same, as usually only one combination of wrap and core makes sense
2: the old string hadn't exceeded its life. When you start having to tune changes much, metal fatigue has started mucking aboutwith your strings.
As to how to tune, you'll sound better on your own with a sweetened tuning. Getting with others, there'll be a bit of a clash as you'll have flatted thirds and they won't.
I like a compromise between the two schools: Everything straight up,except G# and C#: 4 cents flat.
All three schools of thought have merit
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jeff Metz Jr.
From:
York, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 11 Jul 2013 11:27 pm
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Thanks boss for the quick reply. I had to believe that it was the change itself that was being tuned and not the string. Just the ammount of movement a lever or pedal could travel. This instrument sure is a contraption. Haha.
_________________
Mullen G2 SD10 , Lil Izzy Buffer, Goodrich 120 volume pedal, Boss DD-7, Peterson Strobo flip, Peavey Nashville 112 |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 11 Jul 2013 11:34 pm
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Hmmm. The Nuts down below your right hand don't tune the strings, they adjust how far the pedals and knees change the strings. Only the knobs at the left end tune the strings. It almost sounds like you have another few questions, we'll be here to answer them when you figure out how to ask what you need
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jeff Metz Jr.
From:
York, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2013 11:30 am
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Yeah I know about the nylons tuning the changes and the machines tuning the strings. I just wasnt sure if the changes stayed put when a string broke and was replaced.
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Mullen G2 SD10 , Lil Izzy Buffer, Goodrich 120 volume pedal, Boss DD-7, Peterson Strobo flip, Peavey Nashville 112 |
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James Wolf
From:
Georgia
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Posted 12 Jul 2013 11:37 am
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| Jeff Metz Jr. wrote: |
| Yeah I know about the nylons tuning the changes and the machines tuning the strings. I just wasnt sure if the changes stayed put when a string broke and was replaced. |
Here is what I do if it helps. After I change the strings I tune them up at the key head only. They need to stretch a bit. Play a bit activating your changes. Tune at the key head again. You will notice several strings go flat, particularly the wound strings that have raises of them. Tune them back up. Once the strings have stabilized and hold their tuning THEN check the nylons. Mine rarely need adjustment between string changes, but once in a while they do.
If you use the exact same strings it should require little or no adjustment. Just don't go cranking the nylons until you are sure the new string is fully stretched and holding its tune at the key head. |
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James Wolf
From:
Georgia
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Posted 12 Jul 2013 11:43 am
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| Also a very common problem is for noobs (and I have made this mistake) to buy a set of strings with a plain 6th string vs. a wound sixth string. That will cause your b pedal to act very strange unless adjusted properly. |
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John Peay
From:
Cumming, Georgia USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2013 5:42 pm Quick Question...
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
| I like a compromise between the two schools: Everything straight up,except G# and C#: 4 cents flat. |
Not to hijack but....I'm pretty much in same camp as you, Lane, but what do you do with those pesky F's? |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 12 Jul 2013 5:48 pm
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Since my C# is less flat than most folks', mine are less pesky and less flat. Mine are between 4 and 8 cents down
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Bill Moore
From:
Manchester, Michigan
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Posted 12 Jul 2013 7:05 pm
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I'd suggest that every time you sit down at your guitar, tune every string and every change. Get accustomed to tuning the guitar, it really only takes a couple of minutes. And the more you do it, the faster it gets. The Newman chart is a good place to start, print out a copy;
http://www.jeffran.com/tuning.php
Don't expect you guitar to just stay perfectly in tune, get it right every time.
Work toward getting the guitar to sound in tune to YOU. The more often you do this, the easier it becomes. You will begin to be able to tell when things begin to get slightly out of tune. There's no secret, is just practice and repetition. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 12 Jul 2013 7:30 pm
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I agree with Bill, although a Sierra in good shape will probably be pretty stable. It's always a good idea to at least check the changes, then get used to HEARING in tune. I tune open notes to the tuner, then hit chords and let my ears tell me about the changes.
Of course the Newman chart only works on some tuners: of 4 tuners I'vehad in my life, only one had the (nonsensical) Hertz markings. They all had cents, however
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jeff Metz Jr.
From:
York, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2013 11:11 pm
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Thanks guys. I just wanted to be sure. I didnt want to be changing my nylons ( that sounds odd ) when I didn't need to. I can definitly tell when something is in or out of tune. I have only been at the steel a little while but I've played the guitar for over 11 years.
_________________
Mullen G2 SD10 , Lil Izzy Buffer, Goodrich 120 volume pedal, Boss DD-7, Peterson Strobo flip, Peavey Nashville 112 |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 13 Jul 2013 12:00 am
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Jeff, twisting those nylon nuts is a regular part of tuning. The better and more stable the guitar, the less they need it. Cuz Garver's Sierra seems to need it never (kinda like my Zum).
You didn't mention what kind of tuner you have.
In the days before the programmable tuner, we used to use a chart that looked like a copedent chart, but had numbers of how far off zero to tune each note. If you don't have one of the snazzy new tuners, you could make one.
The system I alluded to is simple: every note on the guitar goes to 0, except the G#s and C#s (4 cents flat of 0) and the F lever (8 cents).
I don't claim it's best: I do claim it sounds a bit better than straight up, and it's easy to remember.
Don't think of twisting the nylons as system adjustment: that's tuning.
Does that make sense?
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Bill Moore
From:
Manchester, Michigan
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Posted 13 Jul 2013 8:03 am
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Jeff, if you are having a problem with the physical act of tuning your guitar, do it a couple of times a day for six months and I'll bet your problems will be gone. You'll probably sound better too.  |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 13 Jul 2013 11:49 am
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| Quote: |
| I didnt want to be changing my nylons ( that sounds odd ) when I didn't need to. |
I always have to adjust things when I change my nylons.
Sorry. He threw the straight line out there and someone had to bite.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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