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Topic: Some advice for my fellow beginners |
Don R Brown
From:
Rochester, New York, USA
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Posted 11 Jun 2013 4:50 pm |
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Maybe this has been said before and I missed it or was too dense to soak it up. But something Lane Gray said on another thread gave me a bit of insight which I thought I'd share with others who, like me, are fairly new to steel. You veterans can skip it if you like.
I've been at it about a year and a half. I found that often I would work on a given phrase or lick over and over, to the point I had it pretty well down pat. Then when I put on a Youtube song to play along with, when it got to that point I'd mangle it every time. I'd try the next day, teeth clenched and eyes burning those strings to be sure I did it right - and I'd blow it again.
In another thread Lane made the remark - not sure if it's an original from him or an old chestnut from long ago - "I think the notes and they come out of the speaker: the guitar plays itself. It has taken me years to teach it how." That got me thinking, and the next time I practiced one of those nasty passages that was giving me trouble, I didn't even look at the steel. I just focused on the wall and listened - in my mind - to what I WANTED to hear. Durned if those exact notes didn't come out of the steel nice as can be!
Point is, I had been trying so hard to play this string on this fret, then that string, that I'd over-think it. Once I stopped concentrating on each and every wiggle of my fingers and feet, and listened to what I wanted to play, some of what I had been working on took over, and gave the desired result.
I have long known that experienced players do not have to plan each note they play, it just comes out. I had not realized that some of that kicks in at a much earlier stage in the learning process than I knew. If you're at about my stage of learning steel and might be having a similar problem, hope this helps.
And a "thanks" to Lane for posting the right words to make me see the light. |
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Calvin Walley
From:
colorado city colorado, USA
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Posted 11 Jun 2013 4:56 pm
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the hardest thing to learn is to STOP fighting the guitar and just play the damn thing ...lol
_________________
proud parent of a sailor
Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!
Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick |
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Scott Duckworth
From:
Etowah, TN Western Foothills of the Smokies
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Posted 11 Jun 2013 5:14 pm
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When you get frustrated, walk away, then come back. You WILL get it...
_________________
Amateur Radio Operator NA4IT (Extra)
http://www.qsl.net/na4it
I may, in fact, be nuts. However, I am screwed onto the right bolt... Jesus! |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 11 Jun 2013 5:22 pm
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Thanks, Don. I also told Do that it's kinda like learning a language: at one point you stop THINKING about what to say and how to say it, and just start talking.
BTW, I THINK I created that line, when someone at a jam session said "isn't that hard to play?" and I decided to change from my normal "it's easy to play, but it was a bitch to learn."
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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John Peay
From:
Cumming, Georgia USA
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Posted 11 Jun 2013 6:05 pm Lane's Line...
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| I remember that post as well, it's both encouraging and motivating...I'm going on 2 years now, and am also trying to "think those notes out of my guitar"... |
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Daniel Policarpo
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Posted 12 Jun 2013 3:09 am
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| I am totally at that stage. And even though I was able to cross over that bridge pretty easily on six string tele about 30 years about, this bridge is like traversing some gorge deep in the Congo. It's a lot different, motor memory-wise, but damn if I didn't forget that simple lesson. Good stuff. |
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Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
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Posted 12 Jun 2013 7:15 am
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Watch some of those old Buddy Emmons videos.
Sometimes he's not even looking at the fretboard. Blows my mind.
_________________
Just 'cause I look stupid, don't mean I'm not. |
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Ian Sutton
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 12 Jun 2013 9:26 am
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For me, I have much greater success with learning the song, and then picking out the licks from the chords in the song.
Having a better understanding of the song gives you the option to bail out should some crazy Franklin riff you've been wood-shedding start to come unglued on you. Whereas just memorizing the notes only allows you to play the thing you memorized with limited relation to where you are in terms of the structure of the song.
I also think that if you can learn to stop thinking about what you are playing, all your practice, hard work, and instinct will kick in, and you will surprise yourself. You start hitting the clams when you over-think what you're doing.
_________________
Some gear. |
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Daniel Policarpo
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Posted 12 Jun 2013 11:17 am
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| Ian Sutton wrote: |
For me, I have much greater success with learning the song, and then picking out the licks from the chords in the song.
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Very much agree. Erv Neihaus' tabs have been great for this kind of exercise. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 12 Jun 2013 3:49 pm
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| "If you can't hear it in your mind, you'll never be able to play it with your hands." Your playing will never be smooth, and your style will never "flow", until you can get away from thinking about everything you're doing. |
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Hans Penner
From:
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted 13 Jun 2013 7:51 am
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OH, it is nice to be in group therapy here at the forum! !
Thanx, Dan.
I accidentally discovered that NOT looking at the strings resulted in better playing.
I like to play starting around 10 PM.
Trouble is I have a parrot nearby who thinks its time to sleep.
He does not want the lights on.
He will, however, go to sleep if the light is far away and dimmed way down.
Well, given the above senario, I really cannot see the strings or the frets.
Presto, I play by mostly by ear and everything comes out better.
I do, however, need to have memorized the notes to do this.
That does require more light.
PS.
The parrot is currently not with me and I have been playing with lights on.
Yes, I have been watching my fingers.
Thanx to this group therapy session,
I will have the lights down, maybe even off, tonight.
_________________
At long last, July 14, 2011 and I have a musical instrument I CAN play.
Stage One, Nashville 112, Hilton pedal, Black Box |
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 13 Jun 2013 9:10 pm
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Its kinda like golf, huh?  If you over analyze your swing and focus on all the individual aspects you may end up off the fairway and out of bounds. Just keep your eye on the ball.  |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 15 Jun 2013 10:36 am
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For all you beginners, here's my advice:
Little by little, get to know your E9 tuning: where the chords, major and minor are; where the major scales are; where the 1-3-5 notes of chords are; where the neck's "pockets" are to play all the above.
Then simply apply bits of that knowledge to simple 3-chord practice songs or rhythm tracks. The more you do this, the more you'll be able to "weave" it all together, into what I call the "flow" of good pedal steel playing.
Even for pro's like me, playing back an exact riff or lick is still way harder to pull off consistently. So I'm chiefly a "winging it" player, but I'm always hearing the song's melody in my head, and trying to play that, or play AROUND that, as much as possible, with taste and restraint.
The real goal: support the song appropriately. Don't get hung up on flash and speed, that's impressive to a few folks in the audience, but playing melodically does the job much better, imho.
Hello, Hans, hope life is treating you well! I miss our lesson times together.
_________________
E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 15 Jun 2013 1:56 pm
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Playing any instrument is a lot like using a typewriter, a computer keyboard, or an adding machine.
When I type these words I just think them and my fingers do the typing. If someone asked me where the V key was on a typewriter I would have to think about it, but if someone asked me to type the word "have" I would do it without thinking.
No matter what instrument you play, the time comes when you don't have to think about how to play what you want to play, you just think of how it sounds and it happens.
Do you remember when you first started to play the guitar and you wanted to play a D chord, so you had to think, "I put my first finger there, my second one there, and my third on there, and if I really want to be smart I'll use by thumb on the 6th string..."? Now, if someone told you to play D, C, G, E, A, Emin in quick succession you would do it without even thinking of your finger positions.
Having worked as an accountant for 45 years, I can run through pages of figures and put them into an adding machine without looking at my fingers at all.
I just wish telephone keypads weren't backwards compared to calculators.  |
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Rick Myrland
From:
New Orleans
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Posted 18 Jun 2013 6:04 am
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I think I'm also at about the point where thinking less is producing more. But since it was mentioned above I'd like to explore the idea of playing around the chords, which is what I try to do. So in this Youtube clip of a steel player comping behind Buck Owens "A-11" song, is he simply playing the chord progression? This is where I'd like to be in playing fills and what it is I'm not getting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JqlOQAWpQ0
_________________
Mullen G2; Fender Tone Master Twin Reverb; Goodrich L-120 |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 18 Jun 2013 9:15 am
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Watch the guy's left foot. Most of his tone is coming from the way he depresses the pedals. He's using very little vibrato with his bar. In fact he's putting more vibrato into it with his foot. This is something you're not usually able to see in videos of pedal steel players, as the cameras usually just show the hands, but it's a vital part of playing pedal steel, as opposed to non-pedal. 
He seems to be playing with bare feet, or just white socks. I hope it doesn't get too cold in his studio. |
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Cal Sharp
From:
the farm in Kornfield Kounty, TN
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John De Maille
From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
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Posted 18 Jun 2013 12:40 pm
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The pedal steel is a very visceral instrument to play. All of your extremeties come into use with your mind as the director. Phrasing can be achieved by using the bar, volume pedal, pick attack and pedal / knee lever actuations. But, the only way to achieve any sort of mastering the instrument is to continually play and practice. I've found, that, playing with other musicians seems to really help you hone your chops. But, all of this takes time and patience with a lot of resolve. You have to be dedicated to it, to achieve success. A half baked approach will give you half baked results. I taught steel for a while and I silently reveled when my student progressed to the next step, by himself, magically,and I saw the light gleem in his eyes. It showed me, that, he was practicing and digesting the info I was teaching him. I was also able to tell when he didn't practice. My time and his was wasted on the previous lesson or lessons. Of course, I never rebuked or admonished him, but, I did show a little disappointment with his progress.
On the other hand, you can achieve a form of smoothness and dexterity using today's electronics, but, without having an arsenal of knowledge of the neck and pedals, it'll all just sound like noise. However pleasing the sound might be, it'll just be unconnected phrases having no continuity. Playing habitually and practicing new material habitually is the only way to become familiar with this wonderful instrument. Knowledge is the king and there's no substitute for it. After playing over 30 yrs, I'm still trying to learn more and more everyday. You're never too old and there's always more to learn.
One day, it'll all come together and you'll be amazed with the feeling you get. |
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Cal Sharp
From:
the farm in Kornfield Kounty, TN
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Mike Heugel
From:
Taylor, Michigan, USA
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Posted 19 Jun 2013 4:39 pm
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I'm still a PSG beginner myself, but here are a few kinda' universal tricks for practice time from my guitar/bass background that have helped me.
1) STRETCHING - Before you play, just take a few seconds and stretch out your shoulders, back, neck, hands, and fingers.
Playing tense = playing like s**t, almost always!
2) THINKING - Take a second and think about exactly what you're going to play before you ever even put your hands on the instrument.
A teacher once told me that 99% of bad habits you form are because your hands are wandering aimlessly while you think about what you're going to do. When your hands touch the strings, you should know exactly what you're going to play.
3) LEARNING - Some folks say that we all learn different. There's a shrink somewhere that broke it down into 4 different ways - by seeing, by hearing, by reading, or by doing.
As a beginner, I always try to find instructional material that lets me either hear it and see it, or hear it and read it, before I try and do it. As you progress and your ears develop, you don't need the visual cues as much, but they sure do make things a lot easier in the beginning.
4) TIMING - I always hated metronomes until I saw a you tube clip from Steve Bryant that showed me this tip:
Lots of folks treat their metronomes like a hi hat - they set it to play quarter notes and try to make the click disappear on the 1-2-3-4. But after a while, this gets to be downright annoying, especially as you get moving faster.
Instead, I cut the time in half and treat the metronome like a snare drum, mentally moving the click to the 2nd and 4th beats. For example, if an exercise says to set the metronome at 80 bpm, I'll set mine to 40 bpm. I can still play quarter notes, but I'm free to establish the 1 and 3 on my own by locking into the 2 and 4. I've found that doing this helped me tremendously in developing my own internal clock.
5) HAND TECHNIQUE - A lot of technique videos will have you starting on the outer strings of the guitar - either the 10th, or the 1st. But I've always found it a lot easier to start near the middle of the neck - the 5th or 6th string on a PSG - and work your way out.
There are different reasons this works on PSG than, say, a guitar or bass, but it still works:
- With the picking hand, this helps you establish a sense of the string spacing right from jump street. Otherwise you can fall victim to letting your thumb flail around on the 10th string, or your middle finger flail around on the 1st string. Do that, and you'll be struggling to find the right stroke again as soon as you move.
- With the bar hand, starting in the middle of the neck will help you establish a comfortable bar grip. Exercises that start on the 10th string especially will leave a little bar drop that can cause you to tense up the thumb, forcing you to reposition your bar as soon as you get to the 8th or 9th string. Another advantage for the bar hand is that starting in the middle will help reinforce the idea of keeping the sweet spot moving with the picking hand.
Hope some of that might help some folks out - keep steelin'!
(Edited for clarity)
_________________
"No officer, I don't even own a cat... "
Last edited by Mike Heugel on 20 Jun 2013 3:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Don R Brown
From:
Rochester, New York, USA
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Posted 19 Jun 2013 5:09 pm
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Mike says "When your hands touch the strings, you should know exactly what you're going to play."
But John says "playing back an exact riff or lick is still way harder to pull off consistently. So I'm chiefly a "winging it" player"
I'm not far enough along to speak from experience, but almost every player I have talked to say that they know the melody of the song ahead of time but don't know exactly what they will play until they play it.
One night we were out listening to a friend whose band was playing at a bar. At the break I went up to him and asked what it was he did at a certain point in one of the songs, as I had really liked the sound of it. He shrugged and said "I don't know what I did - I was just playing".
So...what say y'all? |
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Mike Heugel
From:
Taylor, Michigan, USA
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Posted 20 Jun 2013 3:04 am
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Don, I should point out that my post is more directed toward practice time, not necessarily playing time.
_________________
"No officer, I don't even own a cat... " |
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John Coffman
From:
Wharton,Texas USA
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Posted 20 Jun 2013 4:28 am
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I too try to think to much and get every phase just as it is written. Whne I try to get the emotion that was implied with the person who wrote the tab or lick. Just over the past 6 months. I have found that I review the licks then play them was I hear them not others. A lot less stressful and much more enjoyable outcome. Calvin said it best just play it darn thing LOL.
_________________
ShowPro SD10, Mullens RP, Bose S1 Pro, GK MB200, MB500, Bugera T50 Tube amp with SlidgeRig, TC HOF reverb effect. |
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Don R Brown
From:
Rochester, New York, USA
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Posted 20 Jun 2013 5:28 am
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| Mike Heugel wrote: |
| Don, I should point out that my post is more directed toward practice time, not necessarily playing time. |
OK Mike - that clarifies it, and makes good sense too. Thanks! |
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Dale Hampton
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2013 3:01 pm
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| Cal, I appreciate your above posts. I hope people are not missing your message. Understanding what you are pointing out can be more important than the licks you can play. Thanks for taking time to help us. Dale |
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