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Topic: Compensators for the F#s |
Bill Bertinot
From:
Burlington Ky
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Posted 17 Jun 2013 3:10 pm |
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I was curious which pedal or pedals steel players use with their compensators for the F#'s (stings 1 and 7) and why that pedal?
I have tried it several ways, B pedal for string 7 and A for 1. But now I have both on A. I am not totally happy with either way and wanted to know what others were doing, and of course why, when compensators are used.
Thanks!
Last edited by Bill Bertinot on 17 Jun 2013 4:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 17 Jun 2013 3:32 pm
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What are you talking about regarding the F# on string four? Do you mean string seven?
Regarding string one F#: I have the compensator on the knee lever that lowers the 2nd string a half tone. It works really well. But then I don't also lower the 2nd string a full tone. |
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Bill Bertinot
From:
Burlington Ky
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Posted 17 Jun 2013 4:50 pm Compensators
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Paul, Yes, string 7 not 4! I just edited it on the original post.
Thanks for your reply. |
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Mickey Adams
From:
Bandera Texas
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Posted 17 Jun 2013 6:01 pm
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I use pedal a, add another rod to it and insert on string 6...not 7.. shortest pull...Its a touchy one, but it works just fine...But this one for 7 would probably be best for the F lever itself...Same thing, place another rod and bell crank on F lever crosshaft. Use hole 1, and 1, Run to shortest pull on string 7...
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Bill Bertinot
From:
Burlington Ky
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Posted 17 Jun 2013 6:42 pm
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Mickey, thanks for those methods. In the main I am using compensators so that the F#s are in tune when A&B are pressed and then again when playing with pedals up. How do you deal with that???
I spent many years without compensators, but now that I've added them, I really like the sound, but still experimenting to find the best way to have those F#'s in tune. Just as a note: I tune my C#s about 15 cents flat. I just don't like the sound otherwise!
Any and all input is appreciated! |
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Peter Freiberger
From:
California, USA
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Posted 17 Jun 2013 7:44 pm
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| I've tried a few different combinations of compensating 1 and 7 on A and/or B pedals on my MCI. Then I saw that Tom Brumley comped 7 with the A pedal and 1 with B and that's working well for me right now. After struggling with various compression spring combinations on the compensator lowering rods I've got both my '72 and '76 P/P's compensating 1 and 7 well now, too, with very little difference in pedal feel. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 18 Jun 2013 1:01 am
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1 on A, 7 on B. The reason is so that the various chords built on the 9th string (or in my case the 8th, lowered a step) will be in tune.
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 18 Jun 2013 5:16 pm
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What Perlowin said. Here's what I've got going, and I AM the king of compensators!:
Pedal A: lower comp on string 1 (to make strings 5 and 1 beatless); raise comp on strings 6 and 3 to sweeten the 6m chord
Pedal B: lower comp on string 7 for chords with string 9 as root
Pedal C: lower comp on string 1 to get strings 1 and 4 matched
KL F: raise comps on strings 6 and 3 to sweeten A+F chords
The goal of all this is sweet chords, with slightly flat 3rds, in as many useful positions as possible.
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Bill Bertinot
From:
Burlington Ky
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Posted 18 Jun 2013 9:07 pm
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These posts are all very informative and helpful. . Good idea guys; B for the 7th string so that chords with the 9th are sweetened.
Good idea with the F KL. I had thought about it but didn't know "it was being done"!
John, do you know about how many cents flat you tune your C#'s? |
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Bill Bertinot
From:
Burlington Ky
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Posted 18 Jun 2013 9:38 pm
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Anybody know if there's a way to bring the C#'s up to pitch / closer to pitch with the F KL.
The A pedal and FKL engaged = C# major chord. But I tune my C# about 15-17 cents flat because its the 3rd of the A chord. But now when C# is used as root, that chord starts off being 15 cents flat and then i further flatten the 3rds to sound in tune, which means that the whole "A"Pedal + FKL chord is flattened and I compensate with my bar by placing it a little further "north" of the fret.
I hope I'm making sense!
Any compensators for this? Or, what???????? It seems the compensators John uses on his FKL might improve this some. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 19 Jun 2013 7:30 am
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The problem with first tuning the C# (with the A pedal) flat and then the E-F raise even flatter so that the A (pedals down) and C# (A pedal, E-F raise) chords are perfectly in tune, is that the E-f raise is so flat that it becomes unusable for diminished and augmented chords.
There is no perfect answer to this conundrum. I have an imperfect one. I tune in between JI and ET. I tune my E strings and A notes (G# strings with the B pedal) to 440, my B string to 439, my G# strings and C#s (A pedal down) and my E-F raise all to 438.
The C# chord is not as in tune as the others, but it seems to work. And I can use the E-F raise to the the augmented and diminished chords.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Bill Bertinot
From:
Burlington Ky
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Posted 19 Jun 2013 9:45 am
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| Mike, I'll try that tuning your talking about and see. Every few years I tackle this FKL/compensator problem and come out of it with some good viewpoints from others. |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 19 Jun 2013 10:13 am
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Like Mike P has indicated - all that flating for JI gangs up on the E to F change. In fact, I have it about 20 cents flat!
I've decided not to compensate anything with mechanics (with one acception explained below). Rather, I roll the bar forward slightly for the major cord that uses pedal A and the E to F change. I slant a little for a diminished.
I do mechanically compensate the pedal A, combined with the half step drop knee lever on same string to get the augmented by tuning the combo with the half step pull tuner. I tune the half step lower by itself at the end with a set screw behind the finger.
I tried compensators for every case but the added complexity of all those pulls and the added pressure at the bottom of the pedal strokes bothered me.
I have another PSG that exhibits enough cabinet drop that I added a compensator to correct the middle G# when pedal A is pushed for the minor. Not necessary on my new Infinity 12. |
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Bill Bertinot
From:
Burlington Ky
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Posted 19 Jun 2013 10:42 am
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| Jim, I do a similar work around with my bar. I'm with you on the added pressure at the bottom of the push of the pedal. It's good to hear that I'm not the "only one" with these considerations. Always something new to learn with the PSG! |
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