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Topic: The "secret" is out!!!! |
Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 2 Jun 2013 10:41 am |
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It is not really a secret at all, to play with more emotion and expression just linnnnger or reeeest on various notes a little loooonger than others in the passage or phrase.
4 note run:
oooone-two-three-four or
one-twoooo-three-four or
one-two-threeeee-four or
one-two-three-foooour.
The change up gives the listener a chance to catch up. Listen to George Jones sing - Taaake Meeee to your mooost barren desert. Play like he sang. You will stand out from the crowd and might have more fun along the way.
Larry Behm
_________________
'70 D10 Black fatback Emmons PP, Hilton VP, BJS bars, Boss GE-7 for Dobro effect, Zoom MS50G, Planet Wave cables, Quilter 202 Toneblock, Telonics 15” speaker.
Phone: 971-219-8533
Last edited by Larry Behm on 3 Jun 2013 8:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 2 Jun 2013 12:03 pm
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It's called phrasing, Larry. 
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 2 Jun 2013 1:22 pm
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A little lingering here or there or resting or phrasing, are we talking the same language, or should I edit the wording in my post? 
Others tell me I sound different when I play, I ask them how, they are not sure, I think this could be part of the answer. Not right or wrong, just a little different.
Larry Behm
_________________
'70 D10 Black fatback Emmons PP, Hilton VP, BJS bars, Boss GE-7 for Dobro effect, Zoom MS50G, Planet Wave cables, Quilter 202 Toneblock, Telonics 15” speaker.
Phone: 971-219-8533 |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 2 Jun 2013 2:30 pm Ambiguous or contradictory?
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Larry: Your post is confusing.......
You say in the 'hook' that 'The SECRET is OUT!!!!'
Then you contradict yourself by saying "It's not a real secret at all"......
So LARRY..........which is it? Your thread is confusing, to say the least.
I've been doing that for several decades now with both pedal and lap steel guitar, over radio and television as well as recording sessions. I didn't realize this technique was in any way a "new discovery". Where have you been all this time, Larry? |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 2 Jun 2013 3:18 pm
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| did someone say a little bit of lingerie? |
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JR Ross
From:
New Mexico, USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2013 5:46 pm
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| Larry is RIGHT ON ON THIS..I have found myself doing this a lot more in my later years of playing... It's like a Blues player SQUEEZING every note out of a certain passage ..Sometimes I don't even go to the 4 chord and hang on the 1.. Its hard to explain but after 50 years of playin I'm doin a lot more of this type of playin..Believe me it works..It's following the practice that "Less is More".. The older we get the more we realize that this is the way to play...Trust me ..It works... |
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Dick Sexton
From:
Greenville, Ohio
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Posted 2 Jun 2013 6:14 pm Rests and time slips...
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| Larry, I know exactly what you are talking about. Using time as a tool... Singers do it all the time, slipping time against what the band is playing. Speeding up and or slowing down for effect. It can be an effective when used with taste, just as moments of silence can accent a following note or passage. I touched on the idea here... http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=244569 |
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Tony Dingus
From:
Kingsport, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2013 7:12 pm
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There's new players that might need what Larry said and he made it easy to understand.
Tony |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 2 Jun 2013 8:14 pm
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| Larry is spot on. Taking it one step further: sometimes it's even desirable to leave an occasional empty space (rest) between notes. Sometime it's what you don't play........... |
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Craig Baker
From:
Eatonton, Georgia, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 2 Jun 2013 8:32 pm The Money
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| Larry and Tony are both right on the money. Great authors often impress me with all of the words they don't use; great musicians with all the notes they leave out. Sometimes you just have to play like Willie Nelson sings! |
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Gary Lee Gimble
From:
Fredericksburg, VA.
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2013 12:13 am Re: Ambiguous or contradictory?
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| Ray Montee wrote: |
Larry: Your post is confusing.......
You say in the 'hook' that 'The SECRET is OUT!!!!'
Then you contradict yourself by saying "It's not a real secret at all"......
So LARRY..........which is it? Your thread is confusing, to say the least. |
Are you complaining about a non-informative title, Ray?
Seriously, phrasing is the key to effective solos, especially if you're playing the melody. I once saw Evelyn Glennie do a demo where she played exactly what was written, then played the same notes "as an artist". Even in classical music, there's an unwritten ebb and flow that brings the melody to life.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2013 1:01 am
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Miles Davis.  |
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 3 Jun 2013 1:01 am Re: The Money
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| Craig Baker wrote: |
| ...Sometimes you just have to play like Willie Nelson sings! |
I was thinking the same thing Craig.
Even Miles Davis liked his phrasing. They both certainly knew Larrys secret. |
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Brian Henry
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Posted 3 Jun 2013 2:13 am
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Deleted
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LOOKOUT MOUNTAIN GEORGIA
Last edited by Brian Henry on 1 Jan 2014 5:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Daniel Policarpo
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Posted 3 Jun 2013 3:43 am
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One of the things I really love about the Winnie/Keith book and recording is the phrasing that is used. Lots of teaching materials understandably provide a very vanilla approach to phrasing, probably so timing is easily counted and the young novice, or old as the case may be, is not confused. But steel has a way of pulling strange phrasing from the best of us, that's part of the beauty.
Memorizing a flurry of notes does not impart near the impact as a natural and uniquely phrased line. Its amazing how much we take this for granted. That same old tune played for 30 years can be reinvigorated by reconsideration of the basic phrasing. Of course you don't want to twist it all out of shape, "fine line" and all that. |
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Daniel Policarpo
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Posted 3 Jun 2013 3:49 am
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| David Mason wrote: |
| Miles Davis. |
Reading Miles Davis describe music is an incredible inspiration. That guy has the most profound understanding of chords and their utility. That country-blues is just ingrained in his music,which is most evident in his phrasing, even at its most exploratory. |
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 3 Jun 2013 3:57 am
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Phrasing and emphasis will change the listener's perception.
I'm reminded of a public speaking class where we demonstrated this by placing emphasis on different words in the same sentence.
Try reading this aloud:
I never said he took the money.
I never said he took the money.
I never said he took the money.
I never said he took the money.
I never said he took the money.
I never said he took the money. |
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Dick Sexton
From:
Greenville, Ohio
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Posted 3 Jun 2013 5:07 am Joey's example...
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Joey, I think that needs to be a "Steel Lesson". Can not be put any clearer. Sorry, but I'll have to steal and use that. 
Emphasis training...
I never said he took the money.
I never said he took the money.
I never said he took the money.
I never said he took the money.
I never said he took the money.
I never said he took the money. |
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Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 3 Jun 2013 5:11 am Music Content
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how 'bout:
I never said he wrote that song.
etc.... |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 3 Jun 2013 5:31 am
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| Jeff Newman gave us a lot of notes to use,,,but his best "instruction" was a familiar line he used a lot,,,"make it sound real purdy",,,,, |
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2013 7:09 am
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In my experience, if it's going to be a lesson in steel phrasing, maybe it should be:
I never said I got the money.
I never said I got the money.
I never said I got the money.
I never said I got the money.
I never said I got the money.
I never said I got the money.
 Definitely on the money, Larry.
_________________
Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
www.musicfarmstudio.com |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 3 Jun 2013 7:16 am
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Great thread Larry ! One thing I try to do to keep my phrasing musical and expressive is to hear the phrase in my head clearly enough to sing it before I play it. Then the hard part (for me) is not adding anything. No vibrato, bends or a bunch of extra notes just because my hands want to. I try to only play what I hear. It is an ongoing struggle to say the least..
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Bob |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2013 7:17 am
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What He said up at the top, and... "extension" and "contraction" are very-well established games to change up compositions; and it can do the same for an "improvisation." I mean, the technical exercise is to play your lick as quarter notes, and as sixteenth notes, then half-notes, then eighth notes - got thirty-seconds? "But that's not improvising!" No, but if you start mixing them together... Larry's scheme has little slowdowns and speed-ups within a phrase, but the phrase itself it can be de-coupled from the original time scheme, keeping the same melodic contour but blowing up note durations (and volume emphasis).
This is the kind of stuff I live on, I leave the oxygen & food to you other carbon-based units. "Melodic Contour" itself is a grand source of filched licks, and if you play "Mary had a Little Lamb" in B Locrian over an F7, not too many people will start clapping and singing about fleece. Especially if you get in & out of it quick, but maybe come back to it later, maybe starting on a different scale tone? Though, this kind of borrowing can have unfortunate side effects, like how 67% of all "jazz steel" guitar solos start with the same five-note-ascending da-da-da-da-DAH that begins "Straight No Chaser"... fortunately it's a sturdy lick, it can support quite a crowd before the cable snaps. |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2013 7:40 am
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| My term for this technique is "Getting off the clock". |
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