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Topic: Rickenbacker sues Lollar... apparently for real |
James Hartman
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 13 May 2013 10:06 am |
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| This stinks! Best of luck to Jason. I'd love to see Ric lose. |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 13 May 2013 11:31 am
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What of Jason is making pickups that resemble the earliest Epiphone horseshoes (first couple dozen) or the early Bigsby horseshoes? They are both different from Rickenbacker pickups except for the appearance.
I think it is presumptuous for Rickenbacker to claim that any horseshoe pickup undeniably resembles their products.
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Joseph Meditz
From:
Sierra Vista, AZ
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Posted 13 May 2013 11:38 am
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So Ric is suing because Jason is using a horseshoe magnet?  |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 13 May 2013 2:22 pm
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You can't present a law suit if it's a patent that has expired after 17 years as the product becomes public domain. Copyright laws are different.
I have 4 patents all expired. Got knocked off years back and have been involved in
a bunch of law suits over the years.
Time consuming and expensive and emotionally draining. That's why I took up a super easy inexpensive hobby like playing the steel guitar.
Lenny |
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Rich Hlaves
From:
Wildomar, California, USA
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Posted 14 May 2013 8:28 am
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Ric claims to have the term "horseshoe" trademarked as of 2004. I would assume that just like the "toaster" pickup, it was a slang term used by players that stuck to identify that style of PU.
Lollar Horseshoe bass PU at url below:
http://www.lollarguitars.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=horseshoe-bass-pickups
I would assume the Ric is also claiming they have rights to trade dress, the appearance of the pickup.
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On man....let the smoke out of another one. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 14 May 2013 3:06 pm
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I don't claim to be an attorney, but I can remember back 40-50 years ago when "_______ Digest" (name withheld) was sued by...(you already guessed it) "Reader's Digest". As I recall, the plaintiff's action was based on the contention that "________ Digest" had alledgedly copied the layout and font used by Reader's Digest on the cover of their magazines. When the matter was examined in court, it was finally determined that both the layout spacing and font were slightly different...enough to maybe look similar, but not close enough as to be an actual copyright infringement. (The magazine went out of publication later for other reason's)
In short, it's (copyrights, that is) a fuzzy world. Jason's easiest "out" would likely be to simply term his pickup as only a "replacement for a horseshoe pickup", and maybe make a slight design change - not enough to make it unusable, but enough to duck one or more of the design characteristics. That way, I'm pretty sure he can use the term "horseshoe" legally. I can't imagine any sizeable ruling on damages, as Rickenbacker doesn't exactly make big bucks nowadays on horseshoe pickups, but a good patent attorney should be able to help him out of his dilemma.
Maybe there will be a "Horse-U" answer to all this, soon.  |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 15 May 2013 6:10 am
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Horsesh*t!
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links
Last edited by Mike Neer on 15 May 2013 9:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jerry Jones
From:
Franklin, Tenn.
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Posted 15 May 2013 7:54 am
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Unfortunately, these trademark issues are big-dollar, sharp-elbow games played by the big boys. As the link posted above states, an item that was previously the subject of a patent, can not be later trademarked. That's true, but it will cost a lot of money to cancel Ric's trademark on that basis. The cheapest way to oppose these marks is in the early "published for opposition" phase.
If Lollar were to win a trademark suit, I doubt they would ever recoup legal fees from the profit on sales of "Horseshoe" pickups. Fair or not, Ric wants to protect their intellectual property rights. So I'd save my money, maybe cut a license deal with Ric. 
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Jerry Jones
Last edited by Jerry Jones on 15 May 2013 4:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Michael Maddex
From:
Northern New Mexico, USA
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Posted 15 May 2013 8:33 am
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I think that it says something about the corporate control of our society when an ordinary dictionary word like 'horseshoe' can be trademarked. This was not true in the past and is why we have product names like 'Kleenex' and so on with unusual spellings. It is my understanding that it all changed with MicroSoft trademarking 'Windows'.
I don't know why Jason can't use terminology like 'horseshoe style pickup' or 'in the tradition of the horseshoe pickup' and so on. Of course, doing so is capitulating to the corporate masters. 'Stratocaster' is a trademark of FMIC, but other companies offer 'Strat-style' guitars.
Like Mike said, 'Horsesh*t!'
All my opinions, of course.
Copyright 2013 by Michael Maddex
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"For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert." -- Arthur C. Clarke |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 15 May 2013 9:02 am
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| the world is going to hell, young owners of old companies have no soul connection and the greedy smell of money is wafting everywhere. |
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Olli Haavisto
From:
Jarvenpaa,Finland
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Posted 15 May 2013 9:17 am
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Word
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Olli Haavisto
Finland |
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Randy Phelps
From:
California, USA
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Posted 15 May 2013 10:12 am
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| Rich Hlaves wrote: |
Ric claims to have the term "horseshoe" trademarked as of 2004. I would assume that just like the "toaster" pickup, it was a slang term used by players that stuck to identify that style of PU.
Lollar Horseshoe bass PU at url below:
http://www.lollarguitars.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=horseshoe-bass-pickups
I would assume the Ric is also claiming they have rights to trade dress, the appearance of the pickup. |
maybe jason can call them whoresshoes and add a pump 'heal' with a r on it! |
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Alvin Blaine
From:
Picture Rocks, Arizona, USA
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Posted 15 May 2013 10:18 am
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| Len Amaral wrote: |
You can't present a law suit if it's a patent that has expired after 17 years as the product becomes public domain. Copyright laws are different.
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Rickenbacker received a Trademark on the word "Horseshoe" pickup in 2006, AFTER Jason was making pickups.
I still can't believe that no one at the USPTO did any research to know that many have used that name and some, other than Rickenbacker, were still using it 7 years ago. They did flag it as inconsistent.
I really don't see Ric having a case on this. The name has been broadly used for over 80 years, they never defended it, and they waited till Jason was making a version of it, before they Trademarked the name and filed a law suit.
Also the "Horseshoe" pickup that Rickenbacker makes now isn't even a real working "Horseshoe". It's just a standard bobbin wound magnet pickup with two non-magnetic pieces screwed on top. Jason's pickup actually uses a horseshoe shaped magnet in his pickup.
_________________
http://www.oldbluesound.com/about.htm
http://www.facebook.com/cowboytwang |
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Chris Bauer
From:
Nashville, TN USA
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Posted 15 May 2013 12:23 pm
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| The whole 'Monster' infringement fiasco comes immediately to mind... |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Jerry Jones
From:
Franklin, Tenn.
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Posted 15 May 2013 12:50 pm
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Don't see on the USPTO site where Ric filed any claim for "Horseshoe"...only trade dress:
http://tess2.uspto.gov
Word and/or Design Mark Search (Structured)
Search "Rickenbacker" as owners name and international class "015" and "009".
Also serial number: 78526361
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Jerry Jones
Last edited by Jerry Jones on 15 May 2013 1:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Rich Hlaves
From:
Wildomar, California, USA
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Posted 15 May 2013 1:15 pm
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I know Ric got nasty with Jason Lollar and Rick A. both a while back. I wonder why Jason got back into the horseshoe business, this time with a bass PU.
Trade dress could be the real killer for Lollar.
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On man....let the smoke out of another one. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 15 May 2013 1:55 pm
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this just totally sucks and ruins my opinion of rickenbacker.
i hope this works out for the class act of lollar, not the scummy dealings of rickenbacker.
Last edited by chris ivey on 16 May 2013 8:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 16 May 2013 3:06 am
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this really blows !
Rick should pay Jason (& Rick A) for keeping the product alive |
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Rich Peterson
From:
Moorhead, MN
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Posted 19 May 2013 5:29 pm
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| Settle by agreeing to call them "wrap around" pickups. But file for a trademark on "Wrap Around Pickups" first. |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 20 May 2013 12:11 pm
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| I don't this suit can be won by Ric. This is Corporate America folks. Frightening. |
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