Low B on 12 string uni

Sonny Jenkins · From: Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx

My low B string on my 25" scale Excel is too loose. It is an .068. On my 24 1/2" Kline it is OK. Would the longer scale length effect it that much?? Should I go to a different gauge string????

Looks like I may have found the answer,,,,about 2-3 posts' down,,,,Thanks. Input would still be appreciated!!!

Dave Hopping · From: Aurora, Colorado

Odd....Seems like the .068 would be tighter on the longer-scale neck.

Sonny Jenkins · From: Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx

Guess I'll try a .062 or .064,,,,thought I had one but I don't.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

on 24" guitars I use a .070. .068s don't feel floppy, but seventies sound a titch beefier. If they were easier to find, I'd try 72s.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Sonny Jenkins · From: Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx

hhhuuummmmm,,,,according to the chart,,the longer the scale the smaller the string for that particular pitch???

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Yes. But if experience already tells you the 68 is loose, going down will make it worse. Sometimes, practice thumbs its nose at theory.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Don't know about the Excel guitars, but I always used a .068 on all my Sierra uni 25's. You might try experimenting with differences between stainless, nickel alloys or other brands of strings.

The core wire the windings are wrapped around makes a difference in the tension, I believe.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

All else being equal (string gauge and composition, pitch), longer scale means more tension, shorter scale less tension. So if you find .068 too floppy, then smaller gauge of the same exact string composition (materials, core/wrap ratio, how the wire is made, hex vs. round core, tightness of wrapping, and so on) will be even floppier.

The core diameter, at the same total gauge diameter, definitely affects the tension at pitch, all else equal. So perhaps you have a .068 with a smaller core diameter - my experience is that smaller core-wrap ratio does make strings feel looser. For example, I used to use SIT 10-46 strings on a Tele because the wound strings had a slightly smaller core diameter and were a bit more slinky for snapping kinds of effects. But I've gotten to where I prefer a stiffer feel and now use, let's say, Ernie Balls, D'Addarios, or GHS, which have a slightly larger core diameter. I checked this out not just by feel and sound, but also by unwrapping some windings and measuring the core diameters with a micrometer.

I prefer to go up in gauge significantly for the low B on a 12-string uni if possible. I'd try a .072 or even higher if I could get it. But definitely check the core diameter.

My take.

John Russell · From: Austin, Texas

Dave M. is correct. As guitar players will know, the longer scale guitars (Fenders, Martins) have a little more tension than shorter ones (Gibsons etc.). Also your intonation will be better with the heavier string. I use a .070 or bigger if I have the choice. If I have to use a .068, I'll tune it a few cents flat knowing that the bar pressure required for the other strings will likely raise the pitch of the low B. Lately I've been playing lead electric guitar (with a very good steel player) and have opted for the heavier nickel or stainless steel set going from .011 to .052. Intonation is much better than the Regular Slinky set or the Skinny Top Heavy Bottom set.

One of my S12U guitars has the 24.25" scale and the other has the 24". I tune the low B down a little on that shorter scale guitar regardless the string gauge.

Sonny Jenkins · From: Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx

How can one KNOW the core diameter??? To my knowledge I've never seen it designated?? I think I have an old Kline brand .072,,,that sucker looks too big to even "bend" over the roller nut,,,or the changer,,LOL.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

O Reilly has calipers they will let you borrow. I also suspect that the string manufacturers will tell you if you ask them.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

As I said earlier - I measure the core diameters with a micrometer. Pull a half-inch or inch or so of windings off at the headstock end of the string to expose the core, measure, and then cut the string further down a bit to avoid further unraveling. There's usually quite a lot of excess string on the big wound strings. My take is that core/wrap ratio is one of the 'secret sauce' ingredients of a lot of string makers, but I think it's pretty easy to suss out a lot of the differences between strings by simply unwinding a few and looking at them carefully. But I imagine at least some of the makers will tell you if you email them. GHS even sells "Big Core" sets of strings to give a bit more tension for the gauge - actually, I like them pretty well.

I have a 14-string Sierra E9/B6 universal, and that bottom string needs at least an .080, and I prefer something more like .085. It goes on, but it is fat, no doubt.

John Russell · From: Austin, Texas

Dave, how do you get the larger strings to fit the finger slots on the Sierra? My S12U has slots that are all the same width. For the E and B strings I have to cut a thinner string off (about 1"), wind it onto the ball end of the thicker string to fit the slot. It fits but it's a crude adaptation. Those strings are .052 and .070 but won't fit in the slot. I had Jim Flynn widen the roller nut for the low B string--he did a wonderful job. He also fabricated my LKR lower to make a more solid feel.

Also, do you have three raises on the high E string? How do you get all three to work with the double raise mechanism?

Paul Redmond · From: Illinois, USA

Sonny - George Lewis told me that on his wound strings, he used "equal thirds" That is, take the overall diameter and the core wire was 1/3 of that number. A smaller core wire will not IMO do the job properly as the moving mass is so much greater than the poor core that's supporting it. FWIW I used to use a .079", then later, a .074" compound-wound bass string on that low B....and I drop it to A on my 2nd pedal along with the raises on 3, 6, and 10.....three octaves!!!
PRR

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

John- regarding larger strings fitting the changer fingers- I take the ball end and put it on top of a vice and smack it a few times w a hammer to thin it out so it will fit in the thinner changer finger slots. You need to be careful not to hit the ball itself or it will shatter and render the string unusable.

Sonny Jenkins · From: Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx

Bill Stafford, who also plays a long scale Uni suggested SIT strings. A .068 SIT worked great, pulled up to pitch, no problem.

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic

All times are GMT - 8 Hours	Jump to: