Carter or Rains ?

Ron Pruter · From: Arizona, USA

I'd like to hear from people who have owned a Carter
and a Rains, and which one they prefered and why. I'm concidering getting one or the other. No need to mention the Starter. Thank you much. RP
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Dave Bertoncini · From: Sun City West, Arizona USA

Ron
Had a Carter D-10 and then A Rains SD-10 and while the Carter was a very good guitar, I think the Rains was head and shoulder above the Carter. If I hadn't wanted a Uni-12 I was going to send to Gary and have back neck installed.

Richard Tipple · From: Ohio, USA

I have owned a Carter SD10 & a Rains SD10, purchased new.
They are both mighty fine steels Smile

I can say the Carter had the BCT feature and had great tone Smile

Being one who is always wanting to try other steels, I sold the Carter and purchased a Rains. I really like my Rains, just a tad more than the Carter. But this is just my personal preference.
So my answer would be,,you couldnt go wrong with either steel Very Happy

but if I were you, I would try to play both, before you decide.

richard burton · From: Britain

All steels sound different, even two exact same models made one after the other on a production line.

I have owned a Carter and played other Carters, some of them had a mediocre tone, and some were excellent, it's impossible to know if you have a lemon (or not) until you play it, and I'd venture to say that that applies to all pedal steel guitars across the board, from the very top models to the very bottom student steels.

I don't have much experience with Rains, I've only played one and it had excellent tone, but that may not be representitive of all Rains.

I have had extensive experience with Carters, and mechanically they are very good, very easy to set up a new copedent, but there is one serious flaw in the way that the pull rods and bellcranks are connected.

The rod hooks over a small brass pin (called a pull-
pin), and over a surprisingly short period of time (if the steel is played for a living) these pins wear down, so tuning stability is lost, and ultimately snap, disastrous for the live player.

These pull-pins should be considered a consumable item,
to be checked and replaced if necessary (especially on the most used pedals and levers) every couple of years (on a regularly gigging steel)

Chris LeDrew · From: Canada

I've played Rains steels, and they're quality guitars for sure. Quick, solid pedal action. Felt like a LeGrande to me.

I've owned two Carters: a D10 and SD10. I wish I had the D10 back. It was magical. The SD10, not so much.

As Richard said, all brands vary from guitar to guitar. It's best to try both. But if you're looking for a less expensive option, the Carter will be it. A used Rains SD10 will still be in the $2,000 area whereas you can hook a Carter SD10 in the $1,300-$1,500 range.

I know I'm rambling, but the bottom line is you can't go wrong with either. The Rains might have a slight upper hand in consistency of tone if you're buying long-distance. But neither will let you down.
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Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

John Roche · From: England

I been checking my Carter uni and the pull pin's on mine are worn down, can I still buy them, sorry or butting in on this thread, but it may help decide which one to buy....

John Roche · From: England

I been checking my Carter uni and the pull pin's on mine are worn down, can I still buy them, sorry or butting in on this thread, but it may help decide which one to buy....

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Just a thought...would it be an idea to have some pull pins made out of stainless steel? That way it would never wear down.
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John Roche · From: England

Great idea Bent, but where could I get them made in the UK?. It's hard to find someone to make anything today...

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

I have absolutely no idea how these things are fabricated.
The wear can be seen on one of them. The one with the turn screw works fine and is far easier to work with but it requires changing the hooked pull rod to a straight rod.
.
.

Allen Peterson · From: Katy, Texas

Too bad you do not live closer to Houston. You could hear and play both side-by-side. I currently own both: 2000 8X5 Carter and a 2008 8X6 Rains.

Both are excellent guitars built by masters. You will not go wrong with either.

I actually prefer the Carter. The mechanics seem to be smoother. The pedals are easy on my feet. It is very light weight. I have not had a single problem with the pull-pins over the last 13 years. I don't think this is a major flaw, as some have described. I may change my mind when the first one goes and I have to fix it. The only problem I have had with the Carter is weak return springs. They are not adjustable like on the Rains. I have had to replace two of the springs at least twice. When they get weak, they make a clicking sound. Very weird!

The Rains is heavy. The end plates are about twice as thick as on the Carter. The weight is why I don't use it as much. I have reached the age where I can no longer lug it around. As far as sound goes, it is hard to beat. The one advantage the Rains has over the Carter is the consistency in clarity all the way up the neck. I don't play much in "Hughey land" so this has not been an issue, when I play the Carter. I generally play in my socks and the Rains's pedals hurt my feet. They are narrow and have sharp edges. After about an hour, I am ready to quit or have to put my shoes on. I have never had the Rains repaired. Nothing has ever gone wrong with it.

Both the Rains and the Carter generally have a clear bell like sound in the middle of the neck. The Carter lacks clarity in the high registers but makes up for it with crispness in the lower and mid registers.

To me, the C6 neck sounds better on the Rains. The E9 seems to be more mellow than on the Carter, but this may have more to do with the way I have the sound dialed in on the amp.

Both stay in tune very well, although I find myself adjusting the tuning on the Rains more than on the Carter.

Hope this helps and does not confuse you more.

Allen Peterson
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Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

John R. , I sent you a PM
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Ron Pruter · From: Arizona, USA

Thanks all. Very informative. There is no Rains in the Phoenix area for me to try. If so, please mail me. Bent Steve Finley is looking for the dumbells also, in case your'e tooling up to make stainless ones. RP
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Paddy Long · From: Christchurch, New Zealand

SO what is the word on Rains steel guitars - they seem to have dropped off the radar rather sharply, and their website seems like a single page only - compared to the informative site it once was ???????

Any of you Texas lads close to the horses mouth ??
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Ron Pruter · From: Arizona, USA

TTT
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Michael McNeill · From: Maryland, USA

I currently play a Carter D-10 and a Rains SD-10 for the small gigs. It is difficult to tell the difference. The Carter carries a lower price tag (recently) because they used smart manufacturing practices and parts inventory control and passed the savings on to the musician instead of putting it in the bank.

The Rains is a little "shinier" but also a bit more pricey. Also, David Hartley has been recording and posting a ton of U-Tube Classics using a Rains "HARTLEY Model". David did not hurt the marketing for Rains.

I have seen Carter Double Necks on this forum selling for $1500.00. I have too many instruments now. It is tough to see one of Tommy White's Carter Steels going for $2K or less and not be able to buy it because I don't have the room.

Buddy Emmons, Tommy White and a bunch of pros on the forum play Carters. You can't go wrong either way. Oh yea, both are easy to work on if you have the parts.

Gary Preston · From: Columbus, Ohio, USA

Is a Emmons out of the question for you ? I suggest you look into a LeGrande 111 . I love mine . I also have Sho~Buds and Clark . Nothing like the Emmons tone in my opinion ! G.P . P.S. i get lots of compliments on mine . OH yes mine is ''Black '' LOL .

Marlin Gengenbach · From: New Mexico, USA

I have owned both Carter and Rains, the latter being the one I'm currently playing. Without hesitation, I would cast my vote for Rains.

Mitch Adelman · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Hi Richard,

I just had one of those pins on my Carter break on stage and had to hook the rod to a crank to get through night.Boy did that stink! Where can I get these pins? Steel guitar Canada doesn't have them listed. I'd like to fix it soon. Thanks for bringing that up.

Howard Montgomery · From: Topeka, KS US

Call Al at Steel Guitar Canada, they are $5 each. I just got 6 in the mail yesterday with an extra pull arm for a spare.

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