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Topic: Tone Bar, Copper-Tellurium Alloy |
W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2013 2:08 pm |
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I wanted to make a tone bar with more sustain. I decided to make one from copper-tellurium. This alloy is similar to brass, but is 99% copper, so it is very heavy. Probably it will wear like brass.
The sustain, to me, is quite amazing. Tone is different than the chrome plated brass bar setting next to it. Well, the C - T tone bar is vastly heavier, at 1 pound 4 oz., compared to the 5.6oz chrome plated brass bar sitting next to it.
I made a few tone bars from plastic, but sustain seems to not be so long. I have titanium on hand, and also 316 Stainless Steel and 303 stainless steel. Seems like the titanium gets good sustain, but even after I polish it seems to be scratchy on the strings. The sustain on the titanium is also amazing, but the bar is too long and I didn't want to cut it, as it has the tendency to dull my band saw blade.
Anyone ever think of making tone bars from copper alloy?
I've been experimenting with various metals and plastics for tone bars, lately, lots of fun.
Wayne |
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Dwight Lewis
From:
Huntsville, Alabama
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Posted 27 Apr 2013 2:22 pm Bars
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Wayne, I use a shubb pearse RR1 its got some weight for sure, I would like to try one of your copper bars if you can fashion one like what I just mentioned.
Dwight
ijaash@yahoo.com
_________________
Dekley 7p4k(PRS-10C), BMI S12 5p5kn |
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W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 27 Apr 2013 2:46 pm Re: Bars
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| Dwight Lewis wrote: |
Wayne, I use a shubb pearse RR1 its got some weight for sure, I would like to try one of your copper bars if you can fashion one like what I just mentioned.
Dwight
ijaash@yahoo.com |
Like this one:
I have a round tip mill bit somewhere around here. It would be a snap if I could find that bit. (Recently moved, can't find some stuff.) Otherwise it would be with a round file. Doable, I suppose. For the most part I'd have to hand file it. Would need exact measurements, too.
When I get time I'll go about making one.
W. Johnson |
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2013 10:03 am
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| Quote: |
| I have titanium on hand, and also 316 Stainless Steel and 303 stainless steel. Seems like the titanium gets good sustain, but even after I polish it seems to be scratchy on the strings. |
I have a couple titanium 6-4 bars that I use specifically when I want them to "grab" the strings. Ti 6-4 is very "unfriendly" to cut and machine, but if you go slow and use a good cutting fluid, it's very doable. Stainless 304 and 303 are the "bottom end" of the stainless world. 304 being more weldable and 303 has zinc in it to make it more machineable. 316 might be the better choice. |
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W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2013 1:01 pm
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| chas smith wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I have titanium on hand, and also 316 Stainless Steel and 303 stainless steel. Seems like the titanium gets good sustain, but even after I polish it seems to be scratchy on the strings. |
I have a couple titanium 6-4 bars that I use specifically when I want them to "grab" the strings. Ti 6-4 is very "unfriendly" to cut and machine, but if you go slow and use a good cutting fluid, it's very doable. Stainless 304 and 303 are the "bottom end" of the stainless world. 304 being more weldable and 303 has zinc in it to make it more machineable. 316 might be the better choice. |
Yeah, okay, the titanium really seems to grab, like you say. Thanks for the input on that. I like the tone and sustain of the titanium, but I don't like the way it 'grabs' the strings. However, like you say, sometimes it might be wanted. I'll try making a bar with 316 SS, seems like it might work well.
I have the titanium, so, might make a bar out of it anyway. (I have made a few flashlights from titanium.) Very pricy stuff.
Thanks,
W. Johnson |
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W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2013 7:16 pm
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I created a real short video of me playing my pedal steel guitar, using this copper-tellurium tone bar. I just played through a short chord progression. I hope that it displays the sustain produced.
Here is a link to the video: http://youtu.be/MIGqc7DyC34
Wayne |
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Dwight Lewis
From:
Huntsville, Alabama
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Posted 29 Apr 2013 4:59 am Custom Slide
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Wayne, my mistake the bar I use normally is the RR2. This bar is heavier(7.5oz)taller and wider than the RR1, (RR2 pictured on the right). It is 3.25" long. I love the weight, height and feel of the RR2. I wish it had a bullet nose as on the SP1. Let me know what you can come up with.
Thanks
Dwight
_________________
Dekley 7p4k(PRS-10C), BMI S12 5p5kn |
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Kevin Mincke
From:
Farmington, MN (Twin Cities-South Metro) USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2013 6:02 am
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I use the SP-1 and would try one of your copper-tellurium bars if'N you ever make that style.  |
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W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2013 8:43 am Re: Custom Slide
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| Dwight Lewis wrote: |
Wayne, my mistake the bar I use normally is the RR2. This bar is heavier(7.5oz)taller and wider than the RR1, (RR2 pictured on the right). It is 3.25" long. I love the weight, height and feel of the RR2. I wish it had a bullet nose as on the SP1. Let me know what you can come up with.
Thanks
Dwight
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Oh, okay, RR2. I have enough copper-tellurium to make a few more bars. I do not have either the RR1 or RR2 tone bars, but probably can make an approximations of the RR2. When I get around to it I'll post pictures of it. If you decide you want it, it is yours, (no obligation, I might even just want to keep it myself). Basically I'd machine off the sides and top flat, then file the large grooves in the sides and top with my round file, and sand to smooth finish. I could make the nose rounded too, I suppose. Possibly put a finish of clear on the top and sides so it does not oxidize and stay shiny. Not exactly high tech, pretty amazing what a person can do with a file if he takes his time. I don't think it would be as perfect as the CNC machined bars, but I suppose it might have a little character to it.
W. Johnson |
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W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2013 8:54 am
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| Kevin Mincke wrote: |
| I use the SP-1 and would try one of your copper-tellurium bars if'N you ever make that style. |
I use the SP-1 style myself, (except now I prefer the big tone bar I made). The SP-1 is pretty light weight. If and when I get around to it I'll fashion one of copper-tellurium.
Some brass and/or bronze, is not far behind this kind of copper in weight, but it does depend on the kind of brass. In Copper-tellurium they use phosphorous to remove the oxygen (same as in copper-phosphorous bronze), then add in a bit of tellurium for machinability. I'm supposing bronze-phsphor would be a good choice to make a tone bar from, and it would be almost same weight as copper.
I've been reading that brass produces a unique kind of tone. I wonder how the copper-tellurium compares, or the bronze-phosphor, for that matter. Or if there is any difference?
W. Johnson |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 21 May 2020 10:09 am
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I have put quite rounded tips and butt ends on the RR's, and rounded the butt end of an SP-1 to the point it's reversible, if so desired. The projecting tip of the SP-1 feels weird to me, I want my fingertip right over the string I'm playing.
Now: Ahem: Many years back I got tired of worn out metal files - rooting through a pile to find the newest one, never chucking out the beaters. So I bought a whole case - 10? mebbe 12? - of coarse flat bastard files, and got merciless with the old. It takes me no longer than one Netflix old war movie to put a really rounded, bullet-y feeling tip on a little Shubb. You can also do it with one sheet, maybe two, of 50 grit 3M sandpaper on a flat tray (in yer lap), move the bar not the strip of sandpaper. You do have to kinda lay INTO it. Of course, after you shape it, finish it with some 120-> 220-> 400-> 600-> 1200 gritsies etc.
Many people will find that bizarre, luddite, Ogg-the-Caveman-ish; what I find bizarre is people who take up a hobby to relax, pass the time, but they immediately start scheming and buying stuff to do their hobby faster, bigger better bouncing betty accomplish it all THREE TIMES FASTER yay win win won! - they've just turned their hobby into another JOB. So what do they do with all the time they "saved?"
(mebbe start a hobby? Ogg say - "Guh.") |
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