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Topic: Fender and Guitar Center??? |
Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 17 Apr 2013 9:13 pm |
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| I know that GC, MF, and Music123 just got dropped by Mesa-Boogie. But I heard today, that Fender was now owned by that same group, hence the rise in Fender's prices. Anybody else heard that? |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 18 Apr 2013 4:02 am
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Great info Dave! Now I know the rest of the story.
Greg |
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 19 Apr 2013 12:34 am
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A snarling circle of capitalism. GC owes Fender more than it can pay back. Fender and GC are both properties of Weston Presidio....HMMM.
So if GC goes under, then they'll probably drag Fender along with them--and an earthquake will hit Weston Presidio...So Fender has jacked their prices sky-high--I thought music theory was bad enough.  |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 19 Apr 2013 4:09 pm
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I think it's probably been intentionally structured now so that GC "can't" go under, as they have hitched their wagon to Fender really tightly - think of "United States - China" as a model, they can't call in their 9 or 10 or whatever trillion-dollar debt from us, because A) We ain't got it; B) then they couldn't boost it to 12 and 15 trillion!
NOT to get political please; not my intent, just an example of fiendish, greedy, clever minds at work. And Guitar Center acquiring Musician's Friend, Woodwind & Brass, and Sam Ash - all while they were already losing money - is a perfect example of the modern business model that states you don't need to turn a profit, as long as you have continual growth! Now to anyone who's ever run a small business, learned anything about it, hell, to anyone who has to balance their own checkbook - this sounds like absolute nonsense. However, as much fun as it is to think "those rich people sure are stupid" and us jes' plain fo'k need to give them a good talking-to; we gotta go back to that "fiendish, greedy, clever" stuff. Somehow, rich people seem to come out even richer no matter what they set up, and as someone who's been interested in economics for a very long time, I can assure you that there's a whole lot of stuff about these stinky deals that us jes' plain fo'k never even get a whiff of. And no, I don't know what it is, that's the point.
And if the whole bloody mess does go "bankrupt," defaulting on their share of taxes and defaulting on their smaller creditors - they'll be back in business the next week, and their CEO is more likely to be driving a Gulfstream 5 than a Yugo as a result. (See "Donald Trump" for a great example of rich-guy scumball math....) |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 19 Apr 2013 5:47 pm
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| Amen David. You and I would get along famously. |
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 19 Apr 2013 6:30 pm
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Funny, David---I was thinking about "the Donald" as well. Gotta love the way he slicked the bank that was holding the note on his yacht.
I don't think Sam Ash is a part of all that, are they? Seems like I read that, somewhere. But I could be wrong. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 20 Apr 2013 3:34 am
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I have seen Fender raise the prices on the Squier Classic Vibe instruments aobut 10% over the past year. They are still a great value however. Nice to see that someone recognized how amazing the color photographs were in the Fender color brochures. What excitement and perceived value they created!
Greg |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 21 Apr 2013 11:41 am
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| I hat to pop anyone's bubble regarding "the Donald" but every time he declares bankruptcy (4), the primary entity he cheats is the Internal Revenue Service - he weasels out of taxes. And while it's fun to hate the IRS and "the" government, when rich people don't pay taxes, everyone else's share goes up. Any tax reduction for the rich is a tax increase for the rest of us. It's an easy concept to grasp, but in our ridiculous TV-addled celebrity brainwashed state, a man who defrauds the government four times - declaring bankruptcy four times in a row, thereby causing your taxes and the taxes on your children to go up - he gets a TV show, a bully pulpit and is lauded as a shrewd businessman. 40 years ago he would've been cracking rocks at Rikers Island. |
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Alvin Blaine
From:
Picture Rocks, Arizona, USA
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Posted 21 Apr 2013 7:55 pm Re: Fender and Guitar Center???
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| Stephen Gambrell wrote: |
| I know that GC, MF, and Music123 just got dropped by Mesa-Boogie. But I heard today, that Fender was now owned by that same group, hence the rise in Fender's prices. Anybody else heard that? |
Fender is 42% owned by the private equity investment firm of Weston Presidio. Weston Presidio used to be investors in Guitar Center, then sold their stock to the investment firm of Bain Capital in June of 2007. Weston Presidio bought into Fender in 2005 and did own some of Fender and some of Guitar Center for just over two years, 2005-2007. Now for the past 6 years Weston Presidio has had nothing to do with Guitar Center.
Fender and Guitar Center are NOT owned by the same company, at this time, however the current CEO of Fender was the CEO of Guitar Center, who had Weston Presidio invest in the company, then sold it to Bain. Last month Bain Capital hired the former CEO of Best Buy(Canada) as their new CEO of Guitar Center.
Also Guitar Center, and Bain Capital, owe Fender somewhere around $11 million, and may not be able to pay their debt. So there has been some talk about Bain Capital giving some of Guitar Center's stock back to Weston Presidio in lieu of the debt they are owed. To my knowledge that hasn't taken place yet, and would be highly publicized when, or if, it does happen.
_________________
http://www.oldbluesound.com/about.htm
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Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
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Posted 21 Apr 2013 10:57 pm
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| Thanks, Alvin. |
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Keith Cordell
From:
San Diego
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Posted 23 May 2013 6:53 am
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| Fender or GC, by the way, never acquired Sam Ash. That company is still owned and operated by the Ash family. |
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 23 May 2013 8:40 am
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I'm sooo glad the PSG market has so far eluded the attention of the folks whose interest lies in manipulating money and as of now remains in the hands of people who create value.
EDIT:For all you guys who do a lot of six-string in addition to steelin',did anyone notice that GC's good deal policy went bye-bye at just about the same time Bain bought in? |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 23 May 2013 8:58 am
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| As a slight aside, Fender made 60 commemorative "Snakehead" Telecasters in 2010 to... honor(?) the original prototype. $6,000 a pop, no trussrod, banjo frets etc. And Guitar Center still has four left, and so does Musician's Fiend, and Music123 and Woodwind & Brass - and they're all the same four serial numbers. So they exist in real space somewhere, but apparently even the inventory of all these "stores" can be mashed together when it's convenient. It's easier to "profit" when using creative bookkeeping... for a while. |
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Keith Cordell
From:
San Diego
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Posted 23 May 2013 9:19 am
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| They made some of those guitars in 1996? too with an amp to go with them at over 10k preset. The GC I was working for had one on the warehouse that they didn't dare to put on the floor for kids to play "Smells Like Teen Spirit" all day on, and there it sat until corporate pulled it out of our inventory. Some of those reissues and special edition guitars are just messed up. The Rory Gallagher strat comes to mind. |
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Steve Hitsman
From:
Waterloo, IL
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 24 May 2013 7:37 am
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| To my knowledge, Musician's Friend and Music 123 both pull out of the same warehouse in Kansas City. |
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