D lever on Zum U12

Ollin Landers · From: Willow Springs, NC

My U12 Zum has the standard Newman Copedant with the exception of an added LKR for the 6th string lower.

The pedals are what I would consider average feel for the pulls. The Knees are like butter. I can hardly feel any resistance at all when I engage them EXCEPT for RKR that lowers the E's and 2nd string to C#.

I have a real hard time holding RKR. For simply lowering the E's it's not too bad but when I want to play a lot of C6 I start to feel it. The difference is very noticeable compared to the other levers.

I think I understand that changing the position on the bell cranks makes a difference in the speed at which a lever or pedal engages. What can I do if anything to make RKR easier to engage. I do have a pad on it and that helps some.

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

3 things. You could(and I think you should)take the 2nd string change off and put it on it's own lever and put a half stop on there while you're at it.There's so many combinations you're missing out on if you don't. Then(if you still need to)you could play around with the various leverage adjustments on the E lower lever to make it easier. And 3 - put a lever lock on that lever. I have one. I don't always use it but it's there if I want an alternative to holding that lever in for a whole song.

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

It may help if you loosen the springs that pull the lowered notes back up to pitch. Those are the 12 little screws on the right end of the body, under the tuning nuts.
Be careful to keep them tight enough to always return to pitch when you release the knee lever. Be especially careful to keep the spring tight enough on string 4; you want to be sure that it doesn't allow any lowering from F# when you use the C pedal.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I have an '84 Zum S12U single-body with E's to Eb's on RKR.

In general, if you add the D# to C# lower to that lever it pretty much messes up the E>Eb's because it is a longer distance (full step vs half step lower).

I do not have the D# to C# on that lever.
My RKL raises string-9 from B to D, and string-2 from D# to D.

My RKR only lowers Strings 4 and 8 from E>Eb.
I do like to have string-2 tuned to C# for some B6th songs (Boggs Boogie comes to mind), and I just tune it to C# at the keyhead when I need it to be C#.
I quickly tune it to the A-pedal string-5 C# note, by ear. Then tune it back to D# by tuning it to the 4th string RKR Eb note by ear.

You can back off the endplate tuner for the 2nd string D# to C# lower, and see how much easier your E to Eb lower becomes. That will also allow you to make the RKR throw shorter by dialing out the slack at the endplate tuners for string 4 and 8. You will also probably have to reset the hardstop for that lever once you disable the D# to C#.

I think the feel of your RKR will be short, fast, and easy, once you make those changes and get them dialed in correctly by trial and error with bell crank positions and pull-hole positions for strings 4 and 8 E to Eb's.

Ollin Landers · From: Willow Springs, NC

All of those are great suggestions.

Maybe I should have been more clear or posted my entire Copedent.

I have the 2nd string D#>D>C# with a half stop on LKL as well.

Granted I don't use the 2nd string (C6 first string) a great deal. Just when I want to grab an extra melody note.

The Knee is not that stiff I'm just a perfectionist at times.

I think I'll try adjusting the return springs first and see where that gets me. If that doesn't work I'll probably take the C# change off the D Lever and tune it with the key to C# in the rare event I need it.

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

I've grown accustomed to the C# on 2, along with the E to D# lower. I tune my 2nd string to D and that may be the reason it's never been a problem since all 3 pulls are 1/2 steps. I play a lot of 6th tuning-oriented stuff and have lowered the 2nd string since Buddy Emmons started tuning his 1st C6 string to D and many other C6 players started doing it as well.

It is a convenient scale tone in many E9 and C6 applications -- avoids having to go to the 7th pedal on B6 or the E9 A pedal when using it to get the 9th (2nd) scale tone with the E to D# lever and B pedal (B7 / B9 chord).

I have always tuned 2 to D -- this is one advantage I'd never thought of. Laughing

_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

That 2nd-string-D change is easy enough to try out. I will dial it in today and give it a whirl. 'Not sure there is any Instructional material that supports a 2nd string-D in the E9th tuning, though (How am I gonna play that Em lick in Fire On The Mountain now? Wink

).
Larry has a lot of good info on his website that all S12U players should check out, I especially like his tuning chart.

My '84 Zum S12U came to me (a used steel I got in a buy/sell/trade deal) with a Newman-esque copedant, but is an 8x4 with no LKV (yet).
It has ABC, and all 5 C6th pedals, and lowers string-5 B>Bb on LKR, which hangs right below fret-9.
I am a fan of the B6th Lever Lock method, so I will probably have Lynn Stafford install a lever lock to lock the E's to Eb's and D# to C# on one crossrod, independent of any other pedals/levers.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Terry Bethel, Jimmy Crawford, and others have tune the second string to D and had one knee lever lowering it to C#, and another one raising it to D#.
(The big problem with Unifieds is that there's only so many possible levers, and trying not to give up changes becomes difficult)
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

How? As in Where would you put 9 knees knee-wise, let alone undercarriage-wise?
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

My Fessy has 8x8 == staggered LKL, LKR, RKL

I play it as one big tuning, however, so everything has to be accessible. Crawford 5 lever cluster on the left; the usual 2 + a staggered RKL on the right. I now advise against staggered right levers, but YMMV.

SOME LEVERS ARE EASIER TO GET TO THAN OTHERS, but they're all usable.

Some U12 players (Bill Stafford comes to mind) have a middle tier of levers, a la C6, that is over the sixth tuning pedals. Dif'rent strokes. I like it all there without relocating my left knee.

Worx for me.
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Hey I just wanted to report back that I added the D# to C# to the RKR of my '84 Zum S12U, which previously only lowered Strings 4 and 8, E's to Eb.
I found that I only had to add a little bit of travel to the lever, and the additional spring tension of the additional raise is not very noticable.
I added the rod to the bottom changer finger hole and the bottom bell-crank position.
I think this change is a keeper for me on this particular Steel.

I am also adding "C# to D" to P6. So once the D# is lowerd to C# for B6th mode, it will raise to D on P6, which is basically the note I need to complete your basic Choo-Choo Cha Boogie, Rt.66, Smoke Smoke Smoke, kind of IV7 chord at the I postion with P6.
Up til now I just do a behind the bar pull on this axe, although I have this change on my Sierra.

I did try Larry's method of tuning the D# to D. It kinda messes up my 35 years of E9th muscle memory, but is also certainly a good solution that I may revisit.
I was think I could tune the D# string to D (and lower to C# on RKR), and add D to D# to the A-pedal to keep my engrained A-pedal minor licks.

Funn Stuff!
Pete B.

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

Bruce Zumsteg makes makes a pretty ingenious lock lever that's very easy to install

Michael Hummel · From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

You guys are making my eyes roll around in my head in opposite directions.

I try to follow this stuff, but 9 months in, I'm still trying to figure out all the stuff I can do with my 8+4. Does it ever get any easier?

Mike
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MSA Classic 5+4
Too many 6-strings and amps to list

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

There is a school of thought that says "Hey, look at all Lloyd does with 3&4."
There's another that looks at a copedent like mine and says "you oughtta add half step raises to the F#s, you're missing out." I'd say it depends on whether you've learned the neck enough to, like Paul says, play without thinking how to play; and if so, is there a change that you know you're missing (as in: you're playing along, and an idea strikes you that you can't pull out of the guitar because the harmonies aren't there)
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Michael Hummel · From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Hah! I already have the F# raise to G! Sho~Bud standard on LKR.

But I don't understand all the other s#i+ you have. I imagine I'll be there one day.

Mike
_________________
MSA Classic 5+4
Too many 6-strings and amps to list

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

It's great fun to move the rods around and make these ideas come to life.
It's like being at the intersection of "good clean fun" and "a good brain teaser".
Last night after the wife and kid went to bed, I changed my P6 string-4 [Eb back to E], to go [Eb to D] (same as string-8 ).
Since I don't have a lever lock on this Steel, I noticed that if I release the E to Eb lever, and enguage the string-9 [B to D] lever, this is pretty much the same change as P6 (kinda how Larry Bell does it).
This is more of the One Big Tuning method, I guess.
You don't have to hold that lever over to play B6.
...or You could hold it over and undo it it with the F lever even, if you wanted to.
Oh Yeah, I also changed the P4 Strings 6 & 10 [G#'s to A#'s] to strings 3 & 6 [G#'s to G].
Funn Stuff!
Pete B.

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