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Topic: Fender Amps |
Daniel Morris
From:
Westlake, Ohio, USA
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Posted 22 Mar 2013 5:07 pm |
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Did a little recording today; didn't want to bring an amp, so I used a Fender Deville that a bandmate had.
I'm favoring tube amps lately, especially my Little Walter, and got to wondering: what Fender (reissue) amp (I need an effects loop, and understand older amps don't have them) works best for y'all with pedal steel? I have a Peavey Nashville 400 for LOUD, clean sound, but would like to know if there's a (smaller) Fender amp that you'd recommend. I realize this thread could get long or contentious, but short-n-sweet endorsements are appreciated. Fender-type amp recommendations are also welcome. My Evans SE200 is lovely, but starts to break up when it's loud, and I find it doesn't have the clarity/presence of my Little Walter. Put me down for tube amp preference.
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amp w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Eventide, Pigtronix. |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2013 7:17 am
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Hello Daniel
Don't have much for you here as I am a Blackface fan and just put effects in front of it.
I don't think there is much out there in the lighter category that can match a Peavey steel amp.
All the super light units seem a little screechy to me.
I have a nice rack set up but it is not lighter ether.
My real reason for posting is I have to ask you...
Are you saying a little Walter is louder and cleaner than your Evans? Wow!
Put me down for tube preference also.
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes
Last edited by Ken Metcalf on 5 Apr 2013 5:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Daniel Morris
From:
Westlake, Ohio, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2013 9:45 am
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Ken, I didn't exactly mean that the LW is louder and cleaner; I just feel the LW has more warmth and more presence. A bandmate (tube guy) told me he thought the Evans sounded good for a solid state amp. It may be a bit cleaner than the LW, but without as much warmth. In my opinion, at least. My Nashville 400 is LOUD and quite clean, and I was hoping for generally the same with the Evans, only in a lighter package. However, when cranked, the Evans breaks up where the Peavey does not. A different bandmate told me that if the Evans is breaking up, it's doing so "musically".
I just heard that it may be possible to retrofit a '70s Fender amp with an effects loop. Hmm..
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amp w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Eventide, Pigtronix. |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 23 Mar 2013 1:00 pm
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opinions below 
any tube amp will sound better to your ear than a solid state amp - its just the nature of tubes. They pass through more harmonic content and distort in a way that is very pleasing to the human ear. Solid state amps tend to emphasize harmonics and frequencies that are much less pleasing and when they distort it has kind of a dental work sound. Not fun.
On paper, solid state amps have better specs and more power - but there is a reason that 1930's technology is still used today by almost every guitar player and in all of the professional audio environments.
I never understood the whole effects loop thing - why take a pure tube signal path, convert it into a solid state or (gasp) digital signal path and then re-insert it? You have to go through a few different impedance matching circuits and extra gain stages in order to do that. The result is loss of fidelity - might be very minor, but its there!
The Fender reissue amps are nothing like the vintage Fender amps in terms of musicality or reliability. However - if there is one that is decent, its the Deluxe Reverb reissue. Thats the only one that seems to be stable and sound decent.
The nice thing about Fender style amps is that the effects are built in. For country and western guys, tremolo and reverb is pretty much all you need to get all of the classic tones. Put a delay pedal in front and its done and done.
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Milkmansound.com |
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Daniel Morris
From:
Westlake, Ohio, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2013 1:17 pm
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Thanks, Tim.
The reason I've found for using an effects loop is how some effects sound ahead of the amp vs. in a loop. Certain ones are noisier ahead of the amp, some are recommended to be in a loop. I would not put dirt in a loop, but a f'instance: my POG2 kept giving me some noise issues in a loop, now it's in front. I have 3 Eventide stompboxes, and Eventide states a loop is best, and that's what I've found.
I don't have a fetish about tubes; until I bought a Little Walter, it'd been decades since I used a tube amp. I always opted for clean sound (Peaveys), and even now I'm thinking of a higher wattage tube amp for more clean headroom. It's just that using my LW more lately has given me pause to consider other/more tube options.
Yes, I've certainly heard Fender reissues ain't the bees knees; I've also heard it's possible to retrofit an effects loop in an older Fender, as well as tweaking a Silverface into a Blackface.
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amp w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Eventide, Pigtronix. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 23 Mar 2013 1:28 pm
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wow..you must be rolling in dough. kind of interesting after hearing about all the praise fot the little walter that you wouldn't bother to take it to record with and now you're looking for more stuff to buy to satisfy whatever unsatisfied need you have. more power to you.
i live in a different world, i guess, as i often put one gallon of gas at a time in my car. |
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 23 Mar 2013 1:51 pm
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The only Fender amp I had that I liked for steel was a Super Twin I had decades ago.Six power tubes,180 watts RMS,which I think is getting into enough headroom at stage volume.It'd be nice if Fender took that platform,tweaked it for steel and put it into a 1-15" cab....But it might get expensive,what with the mandatory forklift option.  |
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Daniel Morris
From:
Westlake, Ohio, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2013 2:39 pm
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Hah! No, Chris, I'm far from independently wealthy!
Sorry if I wasn't quite clear - I'm increasingly fond of my Little Walter! In fact, I'm using it Sunday for a recording, and tonight for a gig. Another of my bands is working on a recording; things didn't pan out as planned in the studio, and I couldn't use my LW that day. I will be going to the engineer's home studio WITH my LW to lay down my parts - direct into a board, without that amp, did not cut it. (Not sure how "wouldn't bother to take it to record" came up; primarily I was asking about a lighter, louder tube option).
Unfortunately, too many gigs are WAY too loud, and even with the LW being mic'ed, I have to crank the stage volume, and lose headroom. I'm simply wondering about a higher watt tube amp (LW=50W), which would also be a bit less cumbersome. The LW amp deserves its praise, but as I always had just ONE amp (Peavey) over the years, I only now seem to be catching up with many/most steelers who have multiple steels (I still only have one pedal steel) and multiple amps. Retirement is on deck this year, and then I will mostly be out of the market for gear.
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amp w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Eventide, Pigtronix. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 23 Mar 2013 2:54 pm
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| nice to have that stuff to play with. just out of curiosity, how would you compare your evans with your nash400? i've stuck to my nashville and ltd400 for a long long time and am satisfied, but i've wondered about evans amps....are they as strong sounding as the peaveys? ...or do they have a lighter, trebly sound? thanks. |
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Daniel Morris
From:
Westlake, Ohio, USA
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Posted 23 Mar 2013 3:33 pm
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I do believe the Evans is a bit heavy on the treble side.
I've seen posts here about swapping out the speaker (something about 4 ohms vs. 8 ohms, but I'm not well-versed in such matters), which would deliver the full 200W, and I just spoke to an amp tech today about doing just that (Scot at Evans is opposed, nice guy though he be). The Nashville 400 can get very loud, while still remaining clean. The 400 delivers a slightly better bass end than the Evans, but I'd say the Evans has a more "rounded" sound than the 400. A guitarist buddy plugged into my Evans (he used to own one), and simply said, "that's the sound". My 400 had a bit of work done (don't recall exactly what), and it sounds better than before, but I still think the Evans is a tad warmer, if not as strong or loud. (For reference, I had an LTD; developed a problem which Scotty said he could fix, but then used the LTD towards a new 400 from him. A bit of difference, but not substantial). Typically the treble on my Evans is set around 1 or so - cranking it would peel paint.
_________________
1979 MSA U12 Pedal Steel
1982 Kline U12 Pedal steel
2019 Sierra U12 Pedal Steel
2011 Bear Creek MK Weissenborn
Milkman 40W Mini amp w/Telonics 15" speaker.
Dr. Z Surgical Steel w/TT 15" speaker.
Frenzel MB-50 head.
Spaceman, Empress, Eventide, Pigtronix. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2013 3:53 pm
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One thing to remember is with clean tube headroom there is maintenance (replacing tubes) that most guitar players don't have as they like a little grit in the sound.
SS amps sound good and are much more economical for clean tones.
Push a tube amp 3 nights week fairly hard and I replace in approx 2 years.
Mainly when I hear decreased volume a grainy tone.
Replacing 4 power tubes is an economical consideration.
Playing guitar tubes my last 10-15 years.
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 24 Mar 2013 4:38 pm
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True - but keep in mind today's solid state amps are not the SS amps of yesterday. They have a much shorter service life and many can not be repaired at all. They are made overseas, and poorly at that.
Must tube amps are still made by hand in the US and can be repaired.
Maintenance is just a small price to pay for longevity and good tone
_________________
Milkmansound.com |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2013 4:50 pm
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+1
| Tim Marcus wrote: |
Maintenance is just a small price to pay for longevity and good tone |
I agree
I dislike the 3-4 string whine and yes modern amps are not as serviceable with the exception of maybe Webb, Evans Etc.
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
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Andrew Kilinski
From:
Atlanta, GA
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Posted 24 Mar 2013 5:25 pm
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I've plowed through lots of amps in my few short years as a steeler (polytone, peavey, Evans, Webb, fender, LW - yes, I have gear OCD issues), but I've always been a tube guy at heart. As far as reissue fenders go, I tried a vibrolux and it was so noisy it was almost unbearable. The deluxe reverb, like Tim mentioned, was the only one that was serviceable to my ears (but compared to a vintage blackface deluxe, it's not even close) I've heard a great standard guitar sound through the Princeton reissue, but there were lots of pedals in the chain and I'm not sure how much headroom it had.
On a side note, my new Milkman 50W sideman is clean as a whistle, and it seems much louder than my LW VG-50 was, so I don't put too much stock into wattage anymore. I feel like the amp search has finally ended, and now I can just augment when my GAS starts to flare up (but not anytime soon).  |
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 24 Mar 2013 7:09 pm
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I have a bunch of Fender amps both old and new. Two of them have an effects loop, a HotRod Deluxe and a Dual Professional, though neither are reissues. Ive been using the latter recently for steel and guitar. Im running steel straight in from a Hilton VP with modulation, delay and reverb pedals thru the loop. Its loud and clear!
Clete |
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