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Topic: David Hartley on the Justice / 705 vs Telonics type 409-PW |
David Hartley
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Posted 17 Mar 2013 4:08 am |
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Hi all.
I would firstly like to say what a fantastic time we had at the TSGA Jamboree this year.
It was great seeing you all again,
On Sunday, we travelled back with John Stannard and Mandy Marie Luke to Bartlett and then later in the evening, they took me and Emmylou to the Cotton Club in Granger. What a great dance hall. I had a session on the stage with the Can't Hardly Playboys. Great fun. The next day we travelled to Austin, then home for a Mandy Marie home cooked Mexican meal. Boy, them Habanero peppers are something else!
We travelled back to Dallas DFW on Wednesday night, then arrived home in the UK around 3pm Thursday.
Friday evening, I set up the Justice guitar, Keith White came over to see it, and I decided to run the camcorder while I played the steel, first with the BL705 pick-up, then swapped it out for the Telonics 409-PW. No EQ was altered, so you can get a true comparison. On Saturday I had my first gig here. I did tweak the EQ slightly on the amp and adjusted the blend control too on the PreAmp. It is an amazing sound.
I absolutely love the guitar, and the sound I have on stage. So, at last, I have a gigging guitar, and a recording guitar set up permanently in the studio also.
Here is a link to the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lta05Q6TNKg |
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Charles Curtis
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Posted 17 Mar 2013 5:10 am
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| David; great as always, IMO. I don't think that there is anyone, that I've heard, that is better than you using the E-9th tuning. IMO, the guitar sounds just great and it's always a joy to listen to you, and thanks again for all the videos, tabs and etc. that you make available to many of us. I never get tired of listening to you; cheers. |
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Gary Lee Gimble
From:
Fredericksburg, VA.
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Posted 17 Mar 2013 7:29 am
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David,
Opinions are like exit ramps, they're everywhere. Having said that, allow me to suggest the BL705 sounds fuller with more presence. What does your ears tell you?
And like you said, it was an even swop with no tweaking with your set up EQ...
_________________
Assorted gear and a set of hands...
https://www.facebook.com/garythelee
https://www.youtube.com/user/ZumEmm |
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Dennis Manuel
From:
Quesnel, B.C., Canada
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Posted 17 Mar 2013 8:46 am
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Wonderful to hear you had such a great time in Texas. David your playing as usual is fantastic and the Justice sounds marvelous!
The 705 is the winner for me as it has a fuller, more rounded, natural sound and the notes seem to flow effortlessly. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 17 Mar 2013 9:12 am
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| +1 for the Lawrence pickup. Even my wife (a musician and learning steel) says the Lawrence is cleaner/clearer. |
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Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Jani Peter Sandvik
From:
Kolppi Finland
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Posted 17 Mar 2013 10:19 am
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and speaking of 705,as to give alittle bit flavor too, the BL XR16 gives little more crisp. But my opinion is bl710 wich is abit hotter. i have both but prefer BL710.
_________________
Sandwich Productions
https://www.facebook.com/sandwichproducts/ |
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Anders Lindby
From:
Island of Gotland in Sweden
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Posted 17 Mar 2013 10:53 am
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Yeah,and thanks to you David for great performance in the ballroom and ofcourse in the telonics room,me and my swedish friend enjoyed it a lot 
_________________
GFI Ultra...Nashville 112...Twin Reverb...Stratocasters. |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 17 Mar 2013 12:27 pm
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I opened up Dave's videos on two pages, to get a direct comparison between the two pickups.
You can't get a cigarette paper between them 
And, as always, the playing was exemplary |
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David Hartley
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Posted 17 Mar 2013 12:31 pm Hi All..
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I would like to mention again, the pickup swap-out was as you saw it. No pole adjustments were made on the Telonics, and no EQ was altered on the preamp.
These 20 pole pickups by Telonics were not designed to be used straight out of the box, but rather adjusted for each string in terms of two things, first balanced volume across all the strings, and secondly the tonal character of each individual string. The normal starting height is with the top of the poles about two (2) American quarters below the strings, sometime a little bit further even.
I know that Jay Dee Manness (and Frank Carter as well) set their volume pedal to a fixed level, then they remove their foot off of it and go back and forth between all the strings, adjusting first for volume by moving the pair of poles for each string up or down slightly (moving each of the two poles exactly the same amount), until all the strings have the same volume. Then, adjustments on each string for the desired tonal quality is done by unbalancing the poles as necessary (if one pole is lowered, the other pole is raised the same amount). Raising the poles closest to the changer while lowering the poles on the neck side give more bite or highs, this is usually done to the lower strings, with the height of the changer-side poles increasing toward string 10.
The opposite is usually done on the high strings. The pole closest to the changer is generally lowered and the one on the neck side is raised a like amount to reduce the extremely high sounds if objectionable. String three invariably has its changer side pole set the lowest (greater distance from the string).
I have yet to do any of the above, but after the straight swap out, I knew that this 409 is the pickup for me. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 17 Mar 2013 1:37 pm
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| That is quite a procedure to get the pickup properly set up. More that I would want or would do. I'm not in the market for a new pickup - the Lawrence 710's on my guitar are outstanding - but if I were this would chase me away from the Telonics. |
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David Hartley
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Posted 17 Mar 2013 3:26 pm Hi
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Jack.....
I have just been outside playing the steel. No pole adjustments done yet, and in fact I don't think I need to. I have adjusted the EQ on the preamp only....
I will upload it later.
Maybe tomorrow as its late now.
It is an impressive pickup...
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Stan Paxton
From:
1/2 & 1/2 Florida and Tenn, USA (old Missouri boy gone South)
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Posted 17 Mar 2013 6:47 pm
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David, you are great as usual. My ears are old, and mostly I judge sound by what I personally like, not what is professionally correct. I do like the 705 the best, seems to be a bit more "real" and/or "alive" if you will. Liked it better than the Telonics. I don't have either of those brands in my steels, so no bias there. ...Thanks and keep up the good work.
_________________
Mullen Lacquer SD 10, 3 & 5; Mullen Mica S 10 1/2 pad, 3 & 5; BJS Bars; LTD400, Nashville 112, DD-3, RV-3, Hilton VP . -- Gold Tone PBS sq neck; Wechter Scheerhorn sq neck. -- "Experience is the thing you have left when everything else is gone." -anon.- |
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David Hartley
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David Wright
From:
Pilot Point ,Tx USA.
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Posted 18 Mar 2013 1:57 am
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| Great as always, care to share you settings on the pre amp? |
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David Hartley
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Posted 18 Mar 2013 2:32 am Hi
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Here you go David............
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Kenneth Kotsay
From:
Davie/Ft Lauderdale, Florida
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Posted 18 Mar 2013 3:32 pm
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After listing for over 30 minutes to both pickups my choice is the Telonics 409-PW pickup. It's that 'Sound" that counts the most to me.
Nothing more to say..........!
KEN |
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David Hartley
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Posted 18 Mar 2013 4:01 pm Hi
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KENNETH....
This is my gigging guitar and if you heard the sound through the Evans cabs you would be knocked out. I am so happy with the Justice guitar and this pickup. In the room, while I record it is different. I am hearing a loud PA and I am also playing at a really high volume through the Evans cabs. I would like to maybe try Telonics speakers too. I should have brought some home, but my case was full.
I recorded with my Rains tonight for a norwegian band, and you all know how I do that. It is why I made the choice to have a separate steel for both recording and live use.
I probably won't tweak much more on the Telonics preamp or the pickup. It is absolutely brilliant.
I love both guitars and am Definately not changing anything for a while.....
I must admit, when I watch this video back, the camcorder recording at the beginning with the 705 sounded really good, but in the room, it was different.
I will never knock anything in the steel guitar world. I have played many guitars, and many amps, effects, and everything really. Some things just match up. Sometimes it's not what you would expect too. I have played, and set up student guitars, cheaper amps, and budget effects pedals, and sometimes, you will hear something that you done expect.
This video was not planned. Keith came over, and as I still was awake, and he had the time, we done this video straight out of the box, so to speak. He knew, immediately after we swapped pickups, that it really suited me, and my playing. I did too.
We will alway experiment over the years with different things, and it's good to do this. But if you're happy with everything, there's no need to change, but we always try new things out. There's been about 3 years in the development of these Telonics pickups, and I have tried one or two, but this really is the dogs.. (you know what's)....  |
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David Hartley
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Posted 19 Mar 2013 9:28 am Justice has been done..!
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Lonnie Portwood
From:
Jacksonville, fl. USA
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Posted 20 Mar 2013 2:40 pm
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David, I too compliment you on your excellent playing and have enjoyed your videos for some time now. As to the Pickups, I agree the Telonics would be my preference, based on what I heard. I heard slightly less "highs" or "presence", but a warmer, full sound, as well as excellent clarity, or separation of tones. I might venture to say that I heard some "Lloyd Green" vibes, don't ya know? Keep up the fine music, David. Lonnie
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Music is probably the most "spiritual of mankinds emotions, and when practised with a pure heart, can lead one into the presence of God, who invented it. Lonnie Portwood |
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Brian Henry
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Posted 20 Mar 2013 5:22 pm
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Hi Dave,
Listen carefully to this.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=relmfu&v=7SXnBqS8RcY
I think this surpasses both the telonics and the Lawrence. The notes are crystal clear and the separation is very impressive.
_________________
LOOKOUT MOUNTAIN GEORGIA |
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Kenneth Kotsay
From:
Davie/Ft Lauderdale, Florida
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Posted 21 Mar 2013 3:24 pm
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DITTO....LONNIE PORTWOOD, your above post in relations to the sound qualities of the Telonics pickup is almost exactly the same results that I am hearing when David plays his Justice steel.
To me it's an amazing pickup and then there's David himself, I'll leave that for another post he's just as amazing, playing style that is. |
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David Hartley
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Posted 23 Mar 2013 11:32 pm Hi All
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Thanks for all your comments..
Here's another song with the 705 back on it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlokaZZnW7o
I am squashed up the corner of the room as I have the SIlver Ace 7 piece country band rehearsing in there today. My dad is on piano in his 80's,, got to get that downstairs this morning. A reunion gig is coming up. If I capture any vids, I will show you..
David H.... |
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Duncan Hodge
From:
DeLand, FL USA
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Posted 24 Mar 2013 9:48 am
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Wow!!! Fred makes one fantastic sounding guitar, with either pickup. I suppose that the guy playing the steel helped a little bit.
Great playing and great steel.
Duncan
_________________
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over." |
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David Hartley
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Posted 29 Mar 2013 2:45 am Hi all
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I have out the Telonics 409 pick up back on.
I spent about 1 hour balancing volumes for each string, then tone balancing each string, as per the instructions, it's much easier than I thought.
And it sounds REALLY good.
I will try and capture some video tonight..
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