Club Wages For Musicians-Editorial

Bill Cunningham · From: Atlanta, Ga. USA

This thought is often curtly articulated but Dave Goldberg of Los Angeles took the time to write a thoughtful editorial on the topic of gig pay, particularly in clubs.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/78468650/La-Club-Owners#source:facebook
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Bill Cunningham
Atlanta, GA

Barry Blackwood · Posted 8 Jan 2013 10:09 am

TFS Bill, I enjoyed it. Cool

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

Recently here in France, we came across an Want ad that read :

" Hi !
We are a small restaurant located in the heart of Paris.
We are looking for volunteer musicians who want to enjoy our hotel to make themselves known and sell CDs
It is not a full-time job, but only during special events, we can organize regularly if the echoes are positive.
Jazz artists, rock, pop, variety, etc ... Are you interested to promote your work ? "

To which a musician replied :

" Hi !
I am a musician and owner of a large house. Looking for a volunteer Restaurant Chef wishing to enjoy my home to make themselves known to cook for me and my friends.
It is not a full-time job, but simply on the occasion of special events, we can organize regularly if the echoes are positive.
Traditional cuisine, gourmet, exotic, etc ...
Are you interested to promote your work?
Please reply quickly.
Thank you "

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

Crowbear, that's the most relevant and most appropriate response I have heard in some time. Musicians (side men) have been delegated to a minor role in the music industry for too long.

As an analogy, musician sidemen are equivilant to the linemen who protect the quarterback in a football game. I once worked with a "star" who said that his musicians were not neccessary, that he could hold an audience solo.

I have often wondered what happened to him?
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b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I think that if you look at music as work, playing for small money is a very bad deal. If playing music is a social activity for you and your bandmates, then any money you make is gravy. Free drinks are a big plus.

There are a lot of people who like to play music as a social activity. They enjoy being in the spotlight, and are willing to put up with some amount of crap from venue owners in exchange for that spotlight. Professional musicians naturally have a very different attitude. These venues are not for them.

To me, a dance band doing 4 sets of hot country rock on a schedule is work. A trio playing a couple of casual sets in a coffeehouse is fun. I expect good money for the first, and very little from the second. I guess I'm not very professional sometimes, but I do love playing music.
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Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I looked at his schedule and he does not seem to be hurting for gigs.
If I was employing him (as a club owner), and read that article, his services would no longer be requiered.

Dave Hopping · From: Aurora, Colorado

This one has gone around all the forums and Craigslist at least twice.Goldberg is dead right,of course,but the days when the average bar player didn't need a day job are long gone,and dialoguing with venue owners won't change a thing;there is an unending supply of hobby bands who are delighted with pay-to-play.

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

In my experience it depends somewhat on venue and genre. This particular flux seems to be very true for small clubs, wine bars, etc. The hobby bands are happy to undercut prices, and often bring a larger crowd of rowdy drinking friends/family. 2 or 3 of those bands in rotation will fill the calendar for a small venue. The sad part, to me, is that their patrons become used to, and satisfied with, inferior performances. A much better band asking for more money, and initially bringing fewer patrons, is of no interest to the venue.

In our area at least, the larger, classier, listening rooms won't generally book inferior talent, and can be relied on to provide consistent exposure and reliable entertainment (to a seemingly more upscale patronage), but high "production costs" and a less than liberal split mean a low payout for bands that don't draw a large following, or have an off night. Particularly tough on new bands.

Different structure, same end result. I remember many venues that were always known for great quality of entertainment, and good pay for the bands who could make the cut. Seems to be a thing of the past.
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Marc Friedland · From: Fort Collins, CO

I have more to say about this -- I started playing in bands and performing regularly for $ in 1965 and still do, so obviously this isn’t my first rodeo.

I’ll talk about venue owners and management first though they aren’t the only ones to blame.

The venues that rely primarily on a particular band’s nightly client draw -- seems like they really don’t understand the basics about business in general.

If someone invests a great deal of money in the hopes of running a financially successful enterprise – they better know a lot more than just the fact of people liking to go out to eat, drink and be entertained, so if you charge them enough money over your costs you’ll make tons of money. It’s not nearly that simple in today’s world. I feel sorry for them, but they really should have taken some college business courses, talked in depth with people they can trust that have been successful in the business and who are willing to help them, or at the very least done a lot of reading and research about ALL aspects of the business before jumping in.

The idea of musicians talking to the club owners and helping to educate them so everyone is on the same page is great – except that club owners don’t realize the seasoned musician is possibly smarter and know more about their business than they do and they don’t believe it’s worth their time to talk to us about it. After all – these are the same people who didn’t take advanced business courses before they started their business, so I strongly doubt they would now talk to and trust an old job-seeking musician who they don’t know from Adam.

Let’s face it –
The glory days (of venues competing with each other by virtue of the quality of their live entertainment to lure in the mass quantities of people looking to spend large sums of money for an evening’s worth of fun & entertainment) are far behind us – and even if things gradually get better, people of my age will probably be too old to be marketable any more.
Change isn’t always good, but it is inevitable. And “older” people rarely like dramatic changes in their life. Yes – if you’re receiving correspondence from AARP, you’re an older person, even if you still think like a teenager and look younger than your years.

The club’s reputation is on the line, so EVERYTHING is important to them:
The physical location;
Where and how marketing money is invested;
The menu;
The quality & cost of the food;
The décor;
The waitresses & bartenders,
The Entertainment;
Etc, etc, etc...

Unfortunately – except for possibly placing a very small ad in the Yellow Pages or having a small on-line presence in the form of a simple website, Myspace or Facebook page, most club owners know very little about how to successfully “market” and distinguish themselves apart from their competition and probably have little if any money allocated to do so.
This is typically a new club owner’s mistake and this is where “we” the entertainment fit in as well.
In the “Glory Days” I mentioned earlier it was pretty simple – a rough example being the venue could spend $500 for that night’s entertainment and rake in an additional $1,000 to $2,000 that they would not have seen if it wasn’t for the live band. Sure, it had to be a “High Quality” band, meaning well-rehearsed with tight arrangements, strong lead vocals with plenty of nice blending harmonies, professional looking and playing a variety of recognizable tunes that the audience enjoys listening and dancing to.
And all of this occurred regardless of who the “High Quality” band was or if any of their fans showed up that night.

By comparison, yesterday’s Glory Days have turned into today’s Gloomy Days.
There’s plenty of room to talk about “WHY” – the economy, stricter drunk driving laws being enforced, no smoking allowed in the buildings, baby boomers staying home, etc, but let’s save that for another discussion and just accept for whatever reason it has significantly changed and here we are.

In today’s world most club owners are not going to generate an extra $1,000 or more per night by having a “High Quality” band performing as compared to a mediocre band, so obviously the rules are now different.
I believe the club owners could do something about this, but it would most certainly require a monetary investment for promotion, marketing, club improvements, etc, and that investment wouldn’t pay off immediately – so unfortunately that’s going to be a very hard sell!

But enough about lame club owners, let’s talk a little about many of today’s bands - some of them may be more to blame than the club owners…
The bands have changed over the years as well and unfortunately for the most part – not for the better. If you see my definition of a “High Quality” band above, you’ll realize that very few performing bands meet that criteria, and if they even come close to that – they’re probably only doing casuals and higher profile gigs - not willing to play the typical bar & club scene.
This means that the club owners only have mediocre bands or worse to choose from even if they want to improve the quality of their entertainment.
And I’m using the term mediocre very loosely.
Some of these bands have maybe 1 lead singer who in reality is just an average karaoke singer, no beautiful worked out harmonies, maybe a couple of them screaming Ride Sally Ride during the choruses, a rhythm section that doesn’t understand feels & grooves and plays everything way too fast, and a lead guitar player that repeatedly plays the few fast scale patterns they sort of know throughout every song whether it’s appropriate or not at a volume that’s overpowering the rest of the band. I’m guessing many of you would consider a band like that – well… TERRIBLE!
And these terrible bands solicit club owners bragging about the fans they’ll bring in and that they’re willing to play for next to nothing!
If a terrible band really thinks they’re good enough to being playing out in public and entertaining people when they actually can’t hear the differences between a good band and a terrible band, how can we expect the club owners to know the difference….

I’ve probably said too much already…
Thanks for listening,
Marc

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

If you only know how to play music, and don't know how to entertain, your finished. Many can play music, few can entertain AND play music.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Might as well just shoot me now. Im finished. Razz

Barry Blackwood · Posted 11 Jan 2013 8:50 am

Same here - finished. Shocked

Joe Casey · From: Weeki Wachee .Springs FL (population.9)

I found out many years ago if you get the Women to come out to a club music is secondary..

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I found out years ago, that if you can get the women to go home with you, the music is secondary. Laughing

Just kidding of course.
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Barry Blackwood · Posted 12 Jan 2013 9:23 am

…but if Joe comes with the women, music moves back up to the #1 position. Laughing

Sam Conomo · From: Queensland, Australia

crowbear ,
that ad is amazingly bad news,but ,i heard it made the people in the restaurant feel they were adding to the culture of the city.
promoting (exploiting)more poor musos.
sam.

Leslie Ehrlich · From: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Most of the country clubs in this area fell victim to "line-dancer cancer". Line dance fever spread like wildfire. The club owner would see, or sometimes hear of, another club that was simply packed with line dancers, and he'd do an about face and try out they the "young crowd's music". Unfortunately, the line dancers around here were as predictable, and just about as profitable, as a solar eclipse. Come in, buy one coke or ice-water, dance for three hours, and then gone - like Cinderella at midnight. And, they didn't even want a band, as a voiceless DJ could pump ear-splitting volume all night with the exact tunes they liked. Club owners quickly wrote off the declining profit as a sign of the times, forgetting, of course, how much money they had made from the older, drinking, belly-rubbing clientele. By the time the owners realized what had happened, their former crowds had given up and retired to the sofa and big screen, driven away by $4 drinks, MADD, but mostly...line-dancer cancer. Sad

Barry Blackwood · Posted 13 Jan 2013 8:42 pm

Amen, Donny!

Alan Tanner · From: Near Dayton, Ohio

Barry Blackwood · Posted 14 Jan 2013 8:09 am

Amen, Alan!

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

The main reason I would fire the guy that wrote that article???...

I don't like his "tone".
Laughing