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Topic: Possible Stroboflip usage error |
Alan Murphy
From:
N Ireland
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Posted 3 Jan 2013 4:27 pm |
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I have been very interested in moving towards JI tuning and have been looking at my friend's Stroboflip tuner.
I think the built in presets can easily be used incorrectly, I will attempt to explain how I see it with a simple example below:
The manual suggests the presets were derived from Jeff's tuning and for PSG-SE9 are listed as :
C_____-17.8
C#_____-5.9
D______+5.9
D#_____-3.9
E______+9.8
F______-17.8
F#_____+5.9
G______+5.9
G#_____-3.9
A______+3.9
A#_____+9.8
B______+7.9
E______+9.8
To keep things simple here is E9th with 3 pedals and one D knee lever from the Jeffran site, I have converted Jeff's tuning chart to cents using the Peterson calculator (1.0 Hz = 3.9 cents @ 440Hz)as shown below:
Open______________A_______________B________________C______________D
F#__+5.9
D#__-3.9
G#__-3.9________________________A +3.9
E___+9.8________________________________________F# -2.0__________D# +2.0
B___+7.9_______C# -5.9___________________________C# -5.9
G#__-3.9________________________A +3.9
F#__+5.9
E___+9.8________________________________________________________D# +2.0
D___+5.9
B___+7.9_______C# -5.9
Now notice in the above table Jeff wanted :
The open F#'s to be +5.9 cents and the C pedal F# to be -2.0 cents
The Open D# to be -3.9 cents but the D lever lower D# to be +2.0 cents
The stroboflip cannot possibly know for the SAME note if it is an open or pedalled/levered note so as seen in the offset table above it defaults to the open offset - making the pedalled F# note wrong by 7.9 cents and the levered D# note wrong by 5.9 cents !!
Obviously as the tuning becomes more complex, (e.g. Universal tunings) there are more errors.
It is very easy in the Stroboflip to get around this problem by using the built in preset for the open strings, and have another custom preset for the raises and lowers.
I believe many people might be simply using the one built in tuning thinking it is all that's needed. In fact the manual suggests:
These Presets are chromatic and designed to cover both open strings pedals and levers.
I believe this statement is only correct when two or more sets of presets are used.
The Stroboflip looks to be a super unit, but as I do not have one (yet!) I could be missing out some feature which makes the above incorrect, please let me know either way.
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Joe Babb
From:
Knoxville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 4 Jan 2013 5:55 am
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Sharon and I have a Stroboflip and have been using it now for a few years. There are two E9 sweetener settings. I haven't checked your numbers but I thought I'd pass this on as one data point. We started out using the OE9 setting which the manual says is derived from (I take that to mean it isn't exactly like) the Jeff Newman system with the E's tuned "straight up at o.o cents". Sharon always ended up tweaking the E's to suit her ears. Then we tried the SE9 set which is also derived from the Newman system but now the E's are tuned 9.8 cents sharp. We've both been happy with this setting. Hope this helps. It doesn't address your concern about the difference between open and pedaled/levered strings, but we haven't noticed and problem in that regard.
Joe |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 4 Jan 2013 7:33 am
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I had some problems with the built in Newman settings on the Strobe-O-Flip - my guitar never sounded in tune and even took some effort to tune it, using the SE9 settings. For that reason I programmed in my own tunings into free program slots.
I recently bought a Sonic Research ST122A Turbo Tuner. It too has the Newman Settings programmed in referenced to +9.8 for the E strings on the E9th. I don't know what is different but I can use the Newman settings in the ST122A without problems.
There is one significant difference that the ST122A has over the Peterson. The different note frequency ranges can be specified and thus you can have different settings within the same program. For example F4 could be set to +3.9 cents and F3 could be set to -2 cents. In the Peterson there is no provision for this, you only have "F" - you can't have different settings for the same note.
In actual use; On the C6th settings, String 3 (C) is C4 +9.8, String 8 (C) is C3 +9.8 and String 10 (C) is C2 -5.9. All three are in the "open" C6th program in the ST112A. In the C6th program the only string that is not in the basic C6th program is the 3rd string C lowered to B. It is "B3" and there is a different setting for the "B3" (4th string raise). |
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