another speed picking question for palm blockers

Karen Sarkisian · From: Boston, MA, USA

if you are playing the following

string
05 ----------3----
06 --------3------
07 ------3--------
08 ----3----------
09 --3------------

do you play thumb, 1st, 2nd for strings 09,08,07 and then change right hand position and play 06, 05 with Thumb, 1st (or Thumb, 2nd)

OR

do you play thumb, 1st (or thumb, 2nd) and then change position for strings 07,06,05 and play thumb, 1st, 2nd ?

hope this makes sense, thanks
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Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

I'm no speed-picking expert, but I would do your second example, and "crosspick" it using thumb and 2nd finger.

In a situation with 4 or more different strings in a fast ascending run like you listed, I can go faster crosspicking than using three-finger rolls.

You mentioned palm-blocking. Another option for blocking is to use the thumb of your bar hand as you push the bar forward, tracking your picking hand. For me, this frees up the picking hand and I can move through the run a little faster.

In the end, it's a personal thing -- however you can pick it best is the right way to do it. Experiment. Very Happy

Ken Metcalf · From: San Antonio Texas USA

In the end you need to do it ether way and not think about it plus it would depend on tempo.
I would probably start with a finger and end on a different fret.
It also depends where you want to end up.
I use 4 picks flat handed, mostly non palm blocker so my opinion can be marginalized.
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John Alexander · Posted 1 Jan 2013 3:08 pm

In your first alternative, your hand must skip two strings to change positions (as measured by the change of thumb position), whereas in your second alternative your hand/thumb only skips one string to change positions. Thus it seems likely that the second alternative is probably a little easier to do quickly and accurately. However, the key skill involved in each version (changing the right hand position by skipping either one or two strings) is fundamental, so both versions would be worth practicing. Another useful alternative would be T1T1T1.

Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

One steelers speed picking, might be another steelers slow picking... Mines pretty slow comparitively. But for me its: T,1,2,T,2 normally, but I leave my options open to pick it any way I can. My palm amost always touching the strings ever so slightly.

Karen Sarkisian · From: Boston, MA, USA

thanks for all the responses guys. I have been tending toward T,1,2,T,2. it seems most natural to me. I am working on Tommy White's Hot Licks course and he explains that he is a palm blocker but doesn't explain which finger he uses when.
I think he is a T,2 guy when speed picking though. I am also working on Paul Franklin's course which is more pick blocking. Pick blocking is more natural to me but I think palm will be more effective in the long run.
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Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I'd PROBABLY play it P-M-P-I-M.
But that's just thinking about it. Actually playing it might well yield different results.
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Ian Sutton · From: San Francisco, CA

There is a similar lick in Jeff Newman's Right Hand Alpha course, where he uses TT2T2. But like other replies suggest--the speed of the lick is probably a factor.

Bob Blair · From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Karen, your way is one of the most natural for me. But I tried it the way Lane suggested and that feels great also. Another thing to think about is that since you are moving in one direction you can also do successive notes with your thumb (there was a discussion about this on the forum a few years ago where monster player Pete Grant pointed out that some serious players use their thumbs that way). Another factor is where you are going to go (and therefore where you want your fingers to be) after you finish that run. If you are moving on to higher strings you might be happiest with your thumb landing on 5, but if you are heading back down that is not real convenient. So the choice can be kind of strategic...trying not to paint yourself into a corner.

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

I'm definitely no speed picker, but when palm-blocking for each note my hand is moving for each string-jump anyway, so T-T-T-T-T, T-T-2-T-2 or T-2-2-2-2 may feel just as natural. What comes most natural in each case depends more on where I'm coming from than where I'm going, as "regrouping" fingers and reposition hand over 10 strings takes cues from my hand palm-blocking the last note(s) -- something I observe once I've been there and don't think conscious about while playing.

For me the choice of picking finger "mix" for single note runs also depends somewhat on what type of thumb pick I'm wearing, as the shaped metal pick makes it easier to get exactly the same attack sound using the thumb as using finger 1 or 2 -- less need to prepare for a run. The blue plastic thumb pick tends to produce a softer, more "bumpy" sound than my finger picks, which makes it more "right sounding" to use either thumb only or 2d finger only for such runs.

"Whatever comes out right, is right", in my book. But, what do I know Smile

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

A few points: If you look at your wrist and forearm while you wiggle your fingers around, you can see that the index and middle finger share some cable routing up in there, as do the ring and little finger. So there's little mechanical advantage to playing T-I-M-T-I-M-T-I-M, in fact it might be introducing some complication, re nerve transmission. Now if you were considering T-I-R-T-I-R-T-I-R... you might have something.

I personally think that developing clean, accurate speed is a good goal to work on, a little bit, every single day. There's a good deal of thought required to do it well, and you yourself know what you can't do - so writing your own exercises is a big step forward. I tend to like ones that loop back in on themselves so there's some continuity. And even better ones for this would be some 8-note, then 16-note ones that CAN be played both ways - then make them sound identical with each other.

A few people have said something like "it depends on what the lick is" - and I have to quibble. This may even be true if it's for one specific right reason* but it's very often not. It's really pretty easy to metronome up a single lick or a family of licks that are unified by their rhythmic pattern & identical "NPS" (notes-per-string). But you don't "have" speed as a result, you just sort-of own an incongruous, nervous little freakout.

TRUE COMPREHENSIVE SPEED REQUIRES - DEMANDS - EQUAL NOTE DURATION.

You just CAN NOT apply a high degree of crank to an unbalanced lick that's speeding up and slowing down within itself. And even if you can fudge through that one adequately, everything else will blow all to garbage if you venture out of the hole you dug and try to apply that "speed" elsewhere.

If anybody's interested I have a whole "How-to-use-a-metronome" exercise I stole from Steve Morse and inflict upon guitar students; ask and I'll e-mail it.

*(The right reason is that if you're trying to precisely play a rhythmically-varying, odd-note-grouping melody that gets you going backwards - slipping in one extra finger stroke, double thumbpicked note etc. will reverse you - back to "normal." Hopefully. You actually use the different strokes to count through the switches between 4/4 and triplet feel. hopefully...) Confused

John Alexander · Posted 3 Jan 2013 12:36 am

David - Interesting post. I will take you up on your offer to email the Steve Morse piece - will PM you my email address. Thanks.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Karen,

Jerome Hawkes · From: Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA

thats true (IMO) what Dave says - i remember working up the break to Hwy 40, as it seemed to be the test of speed at one time and the only way i could do it was note-for-note, slow then fast - but it didnt make me a faster player, it just worked for that one solo, if i flubbed a note, the whole thing fell apart.
thats why, for speed purposes, it think its best to "think" the point A to point B within this # of beats method.

Joe Wright had a really neat exercise where you work on the small movements...
in otherwords, break down the mechanics of playing into small pieces and work on those every day. ie - T>side>M / T-M>slide / etc. he mention after you think you've learned a tune (phrase) all the way, then go back and learn the tune (phrase)..what are the small movements that make up the idea.
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Karen Sarkisian · From: Boston, MA, USA

P-I-P-I-M is working for me today Cool

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