Some thoughts on Guitars as status symbols.

William Lake · From: Ontario, Canada

I came across this 6 yr old post. Someone asked if the Korean D'Angelicos were junk compared to the Japanese D'As
I found his answer enlightening.
I deleted his name.

Very briefly - I’ve been playing for about 40 years. My Father is an original Atlantic Records Rhythem & Blues Guitar Player and Recording Artist. The Joe Morris, Ray Charles, era. The guitar instrument itself is so prominent in my family, that I was named after the guitarist "Oscar Moore" who played with "The Nat King Cole Trio". Though not by my choice, I was born into it. I am still pretty much steeped, deep into it.

In the family collection there's a 1969 Gibson Super 400 Mint, a 1952 Gibson ES175, a Gibson Jumbo, a 2005 D'angelico Excel 1 - Not made in Japan but Korea with a custom hand made D'angelico Tear Drop Bridge. Commissioned by Mirabella Guitars of New York. Also a Carlo Robelli Arch top that I had customized.

Enough said about that ... With all of my years of working in and around the music business in New York and working in and around repair Shops. It's sadly obvious that the guitar label and place of origin game continues and is still being played well. Why? I guess, because there's money in it

I never heard Wes Montgomery, Jimi Hendrix, Pat Metheny, J Giels, George Benson, etc. All of whom I've had contact with in one way or another. Directly or through others. Ever comment on an instrument as far as it origin. If a guitar did it for them they played it.

As a matter of fact, a man who toured with Sinatra and was the musical arranger and director for the Great Brazilian composer Luis Bonfi helped me pick out a Carlo Robelli Archtop at Sam Ash on 48th Street in NYC. He is a serious guitarist and can play his ass off. He could not believe his eyes and ears as to qualty of what the Korean's were producing.

Listen. No one ever asked me. If they could look inside any of my guitar's for certificates of authenticity and it's birth place. I just don't run across that kind of thing.

Compare the subject to a car. Dose it run? Is it Safe? Dose it have heat? Dose it have air conditioning. Will it get you to where you want to go?

But then you have other's ... Will it impress the chick's? My friends? My Family? Other Musican's? Just Think - "The Holy Grail" Just wait till I show up with this. Just wait till the word get's out!

Then you have the me's asking? Dose this person know what to do with the thing?

There's way, way too much politics and commercialism when it comes to guitars. It's big, big business. Has anyone ever heard of preceived value. Don't buy that! Get this because ... ah? and you have never even seen it up close, touched it, played it or smelled it. All you know is that you are smitten by it and someone is saying, it a chumps Box. The nerve? No it don't think so. It's more like the game.

"That guitar is Better because it was made here". Or that it's made by so and so? It's all bull and true artist don’t think, act or talk like that. That's the Glam crowd or investor crowd. Or Better yet, The cut me a break crowd. Miles Davis said. The One that's doing all the talk'in. Usually can't play S****! Their instrument's are like trophy girls. Just sort of hanging on their arms.

Recently, where I work a famous Rock guitarist was within a few feet of me. Someone mentioned to him that I played guitar. We began to talk and I asked him what he played. He said an Epiphone. I asked how he come about choosing that model. He said, he didn't. It was a promotional thing, They just give Epiphone's to me. A few weeks later I see this same fellow wailing his ass off in a photographic ad promoting this particular guitar like it was made for him and he was made for it and if you didn't have it and exactly it you were not in the playing field.

This fellow in my opinion had paid his chop dues, was blessed with the right image for the times. And was in the retail game knee deep. Hey - "God bless him," He's honest, He strove for and got what he wanted. If you’re into the guitar God thing, whether it's Jazz, Classical, Pop whatever? That is a part of the business, but I guarantee you that the great guitar phalic symbol that you aquire as a student or a player will have nothing to do with real musicianship and you are a fool wasting time if you follow that path. Is that from Wal-Mart or Macys? I can't tell.

As young boys, My father bought me and my two brothers inexpensive Japanese guitars. This is around 1967. He sent us out for music lessons. A friend of mine Patrick Adams who lived in the building right next to me in Harlem had a number 1 record on the R&B Charts He also performed in the movie "UP THE DOWN STAIRCASE." and later wrote the hit tune "Super Man" for Herbie Mann

Anyway one day he knocks on my door, and says. "I have a gig downtown at the Record Pant Recording Studio tomorrow. It's in midtowm Manhattan. Can I borrow your guitar"? "If you say yes, I'll take you with me". "I 'll throw in a couple of free guitar lessons. and give you ten bucks." I think his guitar had been stolen". He was in a spot.

My answer was yes and I went - what an awakening! My cheap Japanese guitar being recorded along side a Gibson ES335. with a full band. Drums, horns and a vocalist with back up singers. Producers, agents - everyone was there at the Record plant in NYC that day

All around were Black Marshall Speaker Cabs stacked high to the ceiling Stamped The J.H. Exp. (The Jimi Hendrix Experience) He was also recording there that week. So was my no name probably Sam Ash guitar.

So, for the new bees. Labels mean nothing! Where it was made mean nothing! Can the guitar deliver or can you make it deliver mean everything!

My father bought me a Classic 1950's Charlie Christian Gibson ES150 within a year of my Japanese guitar. Some of my friends saw it as odd and un hip. Why didn't I have a black Les Paul like Jimi Page or a white Strat like jimi Hendrix? Or why wasn't my Gibson ES150 at least new? My answer was always "Beauty is in the eye's of the beholder".

Imagine a guitarist playing a beautiful chordmelody piece, the crowd is awe struck and touched. What a beautiful D'angelico Guitar. Then a fool whispers ... yeah but it's not an origional it's a Japanese model.

I had a teacher say that to me at a $60.00 an hour guitar lesson. An Upper West Side Manhattan type Guy "Let me see your Japanese D'angelico." He gave no indication of what he thought, even when I asked him. He then proudly showed me his mid 1960's ES175. I responded. "Nice". My father uses one of those for a second guitar.

Do you get my point! I took one more lesson from him to finish up a chord melody piece that we had started and ended my tenure with him. I was pissed at the fact that he started off comparing and I had to mention that what he considered the bomb is truthfully used as a second guitar in my family. I didn't think much of the guy afterwards and he tried to get me back as a student. His snobbery and one up-manship was almost like a call to arms. Personally, I loved the fact that he loved his guitar so much. It's was his my dogs better than your dog that cost him a $60.00 an hour student. I wish him well.

I do not mean to offend. It's this part of the guitar scene that made me stop playing for a while. The mere idea of the subject I think, keeps people stuck because they are being told that a particular instrument will make them THE MAN as opposed to just plain personal choice, discovery, desire, pride for their own instrumental choice and real comittment. Listen - Stay true to yourself and just be the best that you can be. Don't look left or right. Look straight ahead. Those are the people that make it anyway. People are smarter than they use to be when it comes to buyer beware. The manufacturing is much better and way too tight anyway. Don't believe the hype. Do the New bees a favor help them with things that are really important to their musical growth like Encouragement.
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Bill

Ken Lang · From: Simi Valley, Ca

Having been a guitar picker for 50 years, I could not agree more. I guess when you have played enough you realize it's
not what instrument you have, but how you can relate to it.

All this blather about what you have or want means very little
when your playing it. If it fits, thats fine.

Thanks for finding someone who tells it straight.
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heavily medicated for your safety

Joachim Kettner · From: Germany

Thanks for the great story, William.
I just finished a book about the history of Fender guitars. After Leo started Music Man, he didn't care much about the praise that was heaped on his old guitars, he wanted to move on.
Interesting story about your father's involvement with Atlantic records. I remember the inner sleeve of the first CSN album, with pictures of artists I never heard about.
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Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube.

James Mayer · Posted 26 Dec 2012 12:45 pm

My best playing and sounding guitar is a made in Korea Aria FA-80 archtop. I've never played a nicer neck. It cost me $350, used.

Dave Hopping · From: Aurora, Colorado

I think the country-of-origin difference of opinion is somewhat like the budget vs top-of-the-line brand difference of opinion that went on when nearly every electric six-string was made in the USA.I saw people play marvelous music back in the day on Danelectro and Harmony budget-level instruments,and I've seen people play marvelous music today on Squier,Epi,and Gretsch Electromatics.But what I also see now is people singing the praises of offshore six-strings with a strong hint that their appeal is partly based on the country of origin not being the USA.I'm certain that if the average wage in this country were the $1.36 per hour that's paid in one very large country which exports a great many instruments worldwide,then US-built instruments would be far more competitively priced than they are.I bought a couple of offshore six-strings just to see what the buzz was about,and they're not bad for what they cost,but I don't take any of them to work,and for the last couple of pieces I've gotten,I bit the bullet and bought American.It was worth it to me. Very Happy

Mark Carlisle · From: Springville CA

Since the opening post was the Japanese vs. Korean D'A reps it seems some history is in order. I have also been playing/giging for 40+ years and for a long period in the 60-70's if you wanted a hand carved, solid wood archtop you had limited choices. L-5, Super 400, Guild Artist Award, some small builders, a real D'A or D'Aquisto were about it. I recall seeing the first Benedettos in the mid 80's and compared to what Gibson was producing in that era they were a whole step up. Also, he was serious about 7 strings, which were almost a non-production instrument with the exception of the George Van Eps Gretsch model.
Fast forward and we now have Eastman from China making this type of guitar for prices that are attractive for most players. They found a niche and filled it. I gig with both my Eastman John Pisano 880 (all solid carved spruce top maple back and sides) and my Guild Artist Award (same materials but floating vs. set-in pickup). I never give a second thought during a gig where either one was made-they each have a voice I need to express what I hear in my head for certain songs.

Mike Neer · From: NJ

I don't really get the guy's argument. He could have very simply said, "It doesn't matter which guitar you play, as long as you can play it." It sounds to me like he's being defensive and is trying to convince himself that it's OK for him to play what he plays. He needs to let it go.

Any good guitar player knows this already. Play what you want, make no apologies for it.

I play American and Canadian guitars by choice. I've owned a few Japanese and Korean-made guitars and they were fine, but I know what I like.
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David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

We live in an age where there's a glut of really good instruments and people get rather desperate to distinguish one from another. New builders are using 300-year-old maple found at the bottom of Lake Superior and top-secret pickup winding processes and nar nar nar... and the old guitars have all that "mojo". Fer pete's sakes.... The most comical to me are the ones that involve using brand-new, 21st century technology specifically because it's the best way to reproduce the "classic" "vintage" tones of yesteryear - there's a retro-parts company advertising that they make all their stuff "lovingly by hand - just like Leo did!" Whereas Leo's whole idea was to slap together guitars as quickly as possible, using the cheapest stuff he could find and factory processes that made skilled "luthiers" unnecessary.

There's a process called "magical thinking", a quickie definition would be "errors in causal reasoning." There are baseball players who wear their lucky socks for the big game, the Aztecs used to sacrifice 80 slaves every afternoon because it made the sun come up the next morning*, and me? I have the same kind of guitar cord as Eric Johnson! So look out, world...

I do understand the difference between fine hand craftsmanship and ordinary factory guitars, but the factory guitars can work extremely well for making music. They're more consistent and better than ever before, and even though there is a market for the $5,000 and $7,000 Fender copies from D'Pergo and DeTemple, there's no recorded evidence that those make better songs or solos.

*(worked like a charm, as they say)

Dave Hopping · From: Aurora, Colorado

Times like this,I give just a little thanks that pedal steel is remarkably free of instrument-as-status-symbol.It just seems obvious(sometimes painfully so) that playing a high-buck steel does not make one a high-buck player Rolling Eyes

Roger Shackelton · From: MINNESOTA (deceased)

Buddy Emmons Has Been One Of My Favorite Steel Players Since 1968, But I Never Desired To Own An Emmons PSG. Smile

Roger

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