Tuning the neck bearably

ollir · From: Turku, FINLAND

Hi. I have huge problems with tuning the neck (E9) so that all the conversions of chords are bearable and sound atleast about right. I realize that what I am looking for is the best compromise between the mathematical tones and natures scale where for example the 3rd interval is just below the "mathematical" 3rd.
I'd like to know how do you tune your guitars (those who don't use tuner). In what order do you tune the open strings and after that the pedals and knee levers? What are the strings, pedals and knee levers which are altered higher or lower to compromize the problem of tuning a guitar?

Olli

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

THIS IS VERY COMPLICATED FOR A BEGINNER. Follow carefully and it will become second nature. We will be 'tuning the beats out', which means we will be playing unison or octaves of the same notes and listening to the little 'pulses' that occur when they don't quite match. The process of removing those pulses is called 'tuning the beats out'.

I'm assuming an all-pull guitar -- a push-pull is tuned slightly differently. AND I'm assuming you know how to lightly touch the string creating a 'false harmonic' or chime'.

FIRST TUNE THE OPEN STRINGS OF THE E TRIAD
(you are tuning these at the tuning key)
Tune your E's to a tuning fork, pitchpipe, piano, or whatever you have. Then tune the 5th and 10th strings to the 4th and 8th using the harmonics on the 5th fret (5/10) and 7th fret (4/ Cool

. That's the easy part. Play a harmonic at the 4th fret of the 4th string -- it's a G# -- and it is a VERY WEAK harmonic -- work at it and it will get better. Tune the 3rd to that and the 6th to the 4th fret harmonic on the 8th string. Now, your entire E Major chord on 10,8,6,5,4,3 are in tune. Check it and adjust if necessary before moving on.
TUNE THE A and B PEDALS
The A+B pedals raise the E Major chord to an A Major.
B PEDAL FIRST
(you are tuning these with the nylon tuning nuts)
The harmonic at the 7th fret of the 6th (w/B pedal) should match the harmonic of the 4th string at the 12th fret. The harmonic at the 7th fret of the 3rd string (with B pedal) should match the 4th string harmonic at the 5th fret.
THEN THE A PEDAL
Play a harmonic at the 5th fret of the 5th string with the A pedal and make it match the harmonic at the 4th fret of the 6th string with the B pedal. 5th fret of 10 with A pedal should match the 4th fret of the 6th string (a bit tricky since they are an octave apart).
NOW THE NON-TRIAD TONES (1st, 2nd, 9th strings)
1st and 7th string harmonics at the 7th fret should match the 5th and 10th string harmonic at the 12th fret. The 2nd string harmonic at the 5th fret should match the 6th string harmonic at the 7th fret (no B pedal). The 7th fret harmonic of the 9th string should match the 12th fret harmonic of the 6th with the B pedal.
At this point your entire E and A triads are in tune, plus the 'chromatic' strings.NOW THE KNEE LEVERS
The same procedure used to tune the 9th string can be used for the 2nd lowered to D. If you lower 9 from D to C#, that should match the 10th string with the A pedal.
The same procedure used to tune the 2nd string can be used to tune the D# on 4 and 8 with the lever that lower E to D#.
The E to F lever should be tuned such that the 5th fret harmonic on 4 and 8 match the 4th fret harmonic on 5 and 10 with the A pedal.

At this point, your open EMaj, A+B pedal AMaj, and A+F C#Maj triads are in tune to JUST INTONATION. Your F notes will be WAAAAY FLAT of what the tuner will tell you an F relative to A=440 should be. That's one reason to do the 'compromise'. Here's how:
SHARP THE THIRDS AS MUCH AS YOU CAN BE COMFORTABLE WITH
Since we have the three primary major triads referred to above, EACH HAS A THIRD that, by the way we proceeded, is flat of A=440.
THE E TRIAD
Listen to the way 3,4,5 and 6,8,10 blend together. Begin raising the 3rd and 6th (with the tuning keys) until it sounds out of tune, then bring it back to something you can live with.THE A TRIAD
Same with 3B,4,5A and 6B,8,10. Raise the 5th and 10th with the A pedal (using the nylon tuning nut) until it sounds out of tune and the back it down as before.
THE C# TRIAD
Same with 3,4F,5A and 6,8F,10A. Raise the 4th and 8th (with the tuning nut) until it sounds out of tune then back it down as before.

Hopefully, that should do it. (and hope I didn't make too many typos)

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro

Gary Carriger · From: Victoria, Texas

Larry,
Good guidance.
Gary

Lawrence Blanscet · From: Crosby, Texas, USA

Thanks Larry
You must be a Pro's pro
Your topic's & answers sure do help this old timer begineer learn about the PSG.

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Two things I failed to mention
1. Check your open tuning (especially E's, B's and A's) OFTEN. As you tune the other strings, the ones you tuned first may go out of tune. You can assume that your pitchpipe, tuning fork, or electronic tuner is accurate, but once you tune a string to the standard, THAT STRING CAN CHANGE. Check its tuning before using it as a reference to tune other notes.
2. When performing the last section of the procedure (sharping the thirds slightly to move closer to Equal Temperament), remember to retune any other pedal pulls on the strings you are adjusting. e.g., when you adjust the G#s on 3 and 6, don't forget to retune the B pedal changes. I would also suggest that you check the tuning of the C# (5/10) before adjusting the A+F lever changes (E to F pulls on 4 and 8)

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro

David Farlow · From: Nevada

Larry, you always post such good, logical information, what's wrong with you?
It's Great!

David Farlow

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