Tuning Nylon Tuners With Pedals Pressed Down, Problem or Not

Gordon Hartin · From: Durham, NC

When tuning the knee levers and pedals, do most people release the pedals before they tune them, or turn the nylon tuners with the pedal they are tuning engaged. If they are tuning to beats...

Wondering if tuning with pedals engaged strips out the nylon tuners or might not give the most accurate results.

Gordon

Doug Palmer · From: Greensboro, North Carolina, USA

Gordon, I release my pedal or knee before turning the nylon hex. There is usually a small plastic spacer between the hex and changer finger and it just seems to me that less pressure on it is better.

DP
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Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

Turn the nylon tuners with the pedal/lever engaged. Then release. Pick some chords while engaging that and all other pedals/levers and checking tuning for beats. Fine-tune some more with pedal/lever engaged, if necessary.

Nylon tuners should last quite a few years, providing they are tight enough to begin with. If feeling loose, or that change has to be re-tuned often, it is probably time to clean the rod-thread and put on a new nylon nut.

Jeff Scott Brown · From: O'Fallon Missouri, USA

Doug says "I release my pedal or knee before turning the nylon hex". Georg says "Turn the nylon tuners with the pedal/lever engaged".

Is there a general consensus on which of these is preferable? If it matters, I am interested in particular as it relates to a GFI Ultra keyless.

Thanks for any advice.

JSB
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Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I tune with pedals engaged. I suppose it MIGHT shorten the life of the nuts, but only marginally.
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Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

I am specifically addressing tuning----not wear/tear. On all of my all-pull steels--Carter, Fessenden, Sho-Bud, BMI---if I tune to pitch with the pedal/lever engaged, when I release the pedal/lever and re-engage, the string will not be where I'd thought I'd tuned it. Ever. Therefore I accept this as a given and tune, not engaged, estimating where I want to get to, engage pedal, check tuning, repeat. Works for me. It's like when you are bringing a new string to pitch. Bring it to pitch, stretch string, bring it back to pitch , step on pedal, check, recheck. I never expect that tuning an engaged pedal/lever will be a simple or successful one-step procedure (although as you get the feel for the particular guitar, you get better at estimating) and I'm totally ok with the procedure I've described.

.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I do it both ways, using the "no pedal" method to get close, and then sometimes use "pedal down" method for the really fine tuning. I do think it's important to "bump" the pedal or lever a few times after the fine-tuning to see if the tuning changes, as strings sometimes react differently to slow or fast tuning, due to hysteresis. Smile

Jim Pitman · From: Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA

Wow. We have a 50/50 split. Maybe we should do one of those voting arrangements.

I turn the nylon, then engage the pedal for the following reasons:

Tuning with pedal engaged does not represent the mechanical situation when you are actually playing the guitar. I theorize it's less accurate. Perhaps I should try it to debunk that theory.

Also, my nylon tuners are a very tight fit. Maybe my guitar is not typical, but overcoming that initial static friction usually causes me to overshoot. Engaging the pedal first would add even more static friction which will require more rotational force which increases the odds I overshoot. In fact some of my nylon nuts are so tight the rod twists when I turn them which adds another source of error momentarily.

Bob Cox · From: Buckeye State

with pedals down. If you tune released you can go to far or to less and it becomes more of a chase

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Pedals engaged. Never have any problems with my Carter.
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Jeff Scott Brown · From: O'Fallon Missouri, USA

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

I don't know how else to tune a pedal unless it's engaged. What would you do? Tune a little, push the pedal....nope too much, let up... loosen a little, push the pedal....nope not enough....Repeat as necessary?

I have to listen to the pedaled note being tuned in relation to the other strings.

Then there's detuning of unpedaled strings sometimes when a pedal on another string is in.

Whatever works for you, of course.

Jeff Scott Brown · From: O'Fallon Missouri, USA

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

with pedals & levers engaged - i hear the note being tuned
then release
push pedal or lever a couple of times
& fine tune

never tuned or tried without them being engaged
only the feel stop on string 2 Eb to D on string 9 tuner

Dickie Whitley · Posted 20 Dec 2012 3:29 am

I'm sorry but I fail to see the logic in this. People have been tuning their steels for years with the pedals/knee levers engaged for tuning, Jeff Newman even shows this on one of his videos. I have to disagree with this "hunt and peck" method of tuning, which to me, involves more work and little or perhaps no gain. Tune it pedals/knees engaged, fine tune a little more if needed and get to playing/practicing. To me, this is much ado about nothing, sorry to disagree.

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Simply put: IT DOESN'T MATTER AS LONG AS IT IS IN TUNE WHEN YOU'RE DONE

As CrowBear says, any time a pull is adjusted you should check the open and changed note SEVERAL TIMES. This will let you know if the open (unpulled) note has changed, which might require more pedal or lever throw -- and give you FITS on a gig.

I have never heard of tuning a pull without the pedal or lever engaged.

FWIW
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Jeff Scott Brown · From: O'Fallon Missouri, USA

richard burton · From: Britain

Perhaps it's because of my engineering background, but I always release the pedals/levers before adjusting the nylon tuners, to avoid the possibility of chewing up the end of the tuner.

John Peay · From: Cumming, Georgia USA

James Holland · From: Alabama, USA

As far as tuning accuracy, I don't think it matters, since you have to check/adjust for both engaged and disengaged. And, I always check more than once, to correct for hysteresis, I think its called?

Several professionals and experts advise against tuning while engaged, because it causes excessive wear on components. So I would like to know, if tuning while engaged accelerates wear or deteriorates nylon nuts? I'm looking for peer-reviewed results, as opposed to theories Very Happy

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Nylon tuning nuts are less than $5US a pop. Replace one if it's worn.

I'm peer reviewed over 40 years of playing several gigs every week. I can only recall replacing ONE tuning nut on DOZENS of guitars I've owned, some of which I played for 20 years or more as my only axe.

Again, FWIW
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Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

I'll throw in on the "if it works, it's right" side... with a couple of caveats.
If there is a small or slow wear to the nylon tuners, frankly they're replaceable for low $ so doesn't seem like much of a reason for care. However, if there are tiny ledges or bits worn off that could catch on the edges of the changer arm or rod hole, might be something that affects this issue. Close inspection should reveal the potential.
Since the tuning is related to the lever/pedal being engaged, logic seems to require tuning the pull while engaged.
I've owned/played many brands and models over the years, and some maintain rock-steady tuning when tuned while engaged, while others need some tweezing and repeated adjustment engaged, and not, to pull to pitch. I'm not entirely sure why that is.
Goofy instrument.
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Dickie Whitley · Posted 21 Dec 2012 3:48 pm

JSB, it was not meant to sound as harsh as it may have come across, that's the trouble with writing as opposed to speech, it's hard to get the inflections.

Then again I may assume too much in thinking that people relatively new to steel have seen a Jeff Newman or Joe Wright DVD on the subject. I recommend their teaching materials highly, I have nearly all of Jeff and Joes video and book offerings and refer to them often. With all the instructional material they offer, no one should be "gropeing" in the "dark" about how to do things with the PSG.

...it was also early in the morning (before I got my daily dose of caffine), and in my confused state, I couldn't understand why anyone was worried over a cheap piece of plastic. Much like Larry (although not as many years), I've never had to replace a nylon tuner. YMMV.

My apologies if I came across as a grumpy old man (I am old, but usually not grumpy).

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