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Topic: C6th vs G |
Jim Wilmoth
From:
California, USA
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Posted 15 Dec 2012 12:02 pm |
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I'm a long time guitar player but very new to steel. It is just my imagination or is C6th harder to master than Open G or Open E?
Just seems like intonation needs to more precise in cTh to sound right but maybe because I'm playing more 2 and 3 note chords (but it may also be just my own ear).
C6th is so far removed from standard tuning I like the challenge but something just seems inherently more difficult about this tuning to me. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 15 Dec 2012 12:15 pm
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It is different and it takes more work to get it together, but it is worth it in the end. More attention to the right hand is needed, and the layout of the fretboard requires a lot of insight (as opposed to just taking what you know from the guitar), but in the end you will be able to do things that you just cannot do in any other tuning, especially G and E.
I speak from experience, as I resisted C6 forever, but since I've embraced it, I've written quite a bit about it here and on my blog. Check it out, you may find something useful in helping you assimilate.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 15 Dec 2012 12:37 pm
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+1 on what Mike says - the C6 (/A7) reveals its true powers only to those willing to spend serious study with it. I couldnt get squat out of it for the first year and I had been a guitar player for 20+ years.
Unlike the open maj tunings which take about 2 days to get your head around - you'll have to give C6 some time. I'm not inferring it's some beast, it's just there is so much not layed out all nice and simple vs other tunings. Once you get your slants/split slants down, it can cover an amazing amount of musical ground.
I will add, for you or others reading this thread, that it doesn't mean C6 is a superior tuning to many others - its just the most versatile when it comes to harmony choices. If you are in a bar band playing rock, or a blues slide player or playing 3 chord country or bluegrass - I wouldn't call it the best fit. So every tuning has its place somewhere.
_________________
'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 15 Dec 2012 2:59 pm
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+2 for Mike. I would go so far as to say that unless you intend to limit yourself to playing either blues or banjoey Dobro style stuff, open D, E or G tunings are not the best choice.
_________________
Amor vincit omnia |
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Gerard Ventura
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 15 Dec 2012 3:25 pm
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I'm a beginner but I've found that a "6th" tuning is the way to go, low to high I'm in an A6, F# A C# E F# A C# E (sometimes called the Herb Remington tuning).
The top (thin) 4 strings are simply repeats of the bottom 4. If you go with 6 strings, low to hi would be C# E F# A C# E.
It nails the western swing sound, and you can play octaves which also sound cool.
For blues, you just slide a minor 3rd (ie, 3 'frets' ) up, and you have easy pentatonic scale. |
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Eugene Cole
From:
near Washington Grove, MD, USA
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Posted 15 Dec 2012 8:50 pm
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I do not thing that C6 is any harder than G-tuning.
Unless you never venture far from music which is played with only I/IV/V chords; I do think that G-tuning with only 6 strings is harder than C6th with 8 strings.
With my current C6 tuning I have the I, IV, & vi chords right there in my open tuning.
This makes it pretty easy to navigate.
If I could go back and start over with learning non-pedal Steel I would want to start with an 8-string C6th tuning.
I had spent enough time at the time I purchased my first Dobro to know that I really wanted an 8-sring with a C6th tuning. I would have started out with this configuration if at the time I could have. however back then the cost of a used 8-string was substantially higher than a used 6-string. So I did what I could with the cashflow I had.
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Sierra U14 8+5 my copedent, 1972 MSA D10 8+4, and nothing in the Bank. 8^) |
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Peter den Hartogh
From:
Cape Town, South Africa
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Posted 16 Dec 2012 2:19 am
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I was lucky when I started lap steel in E13th tuning,
because it was easy to wrap your head around it, coming from a guitar background.
E13th is basically the same as C6th except it is 4 frets higher and it has the root (E) on top.
To get the 3rd on top (like C6th), all you do is add the high G# as the first string.
In addition, there is the low D note at the bottom.
So if you come from open E, the E13th tuning might be a good option. |
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Jim Wilmoth
From:
California, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2012 1:36 am
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| Thanks for the encouragement everyone. I'm hoping I reach a point with C6th where I really feel good about the harmony and intonation. It's not that I'm looking for C6th to be the perfect tuning for all occasions. I just want to be proficient at it and right now I'm not happy withe slants and some of my chords in genera. |
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Morgan Scoggins
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2012 5:01 am
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I am with Gerald on this issue. The A6 tuning is "the best" for most any kind of music, especially Western Swing and Country. With a few simple tuning changes you have B11 and C#mi9 for some cool Hawaiian sounds.
I have tried the 8 string C6 tuning but the thin first string G has a high shrill sound that is almost dissonant to my ear. The 6 string version of C6 is a nice tuning but I miss having the full major triad on the first three strings.
I like the idea of calling A6 the Herb Remington tuning. He really knows how to swing with this tuning and while it is not as popular as C6, it is still going strong because of guys like Herb and the late Rick Alexander.
_________________
"Shoot low boys, the're ridin' Shetlands" |
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Gerard Ventura
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2012 5:48 am
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Thanks! For A6 low to high F# A C# E F# A C# E
I use string gauges 46 42 34 30 26 22 17 21
or close to those. |
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Mat Rhodes
From:
Lexington, KY, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2012 7:32 am
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Count me in as part of the A6 school. Mine's a hybrid of the C6/A7 (transposed a 3rd down, it's A6/F#7). I get similar voicings but the tone's a little darker. From low-to-high: A Bb C# E F# A C# E (in numbers it's 1 b2 3 5 6 1 3 5)
I got tired of lugging a D10 C6th PSG around and needed something versatile enough to play Hawaiian, Pop Rock, Eastern, etc. I've been working with it a little over 2 years now and, although it's a learning curve, I like its flexibility.
Last edited by Mat Rhodes on 17 Dec 2012 7:39 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Stephen Cowell
From:
Round Rock, Texas, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2012 7:35 am
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| Gerard Ventura wrote: |
Thanks! For A6 low to high F# A C# E F# A C# E
I use string gauges 46 42 34 30 26 22 17 21
or close to those. |
Perhaps you meant 12 on the first string?
_________________
Too much junk to list... always getting more. |
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Gerard Ventura
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2012 6:09 pm
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Yes, Stephen thanks, I really meant 14 for the high E.
Actually, I play a D8 so although what I posted will work, I misread my own notes (duh)-
here's what I actually have for A6, low to high
F# 56 A 46 C# 36 E 30 F# 24 A 22 C# 18 E 14
The tensions a little higher with thicker strings, a bit easier to stay in tune with more resistance against the slide bar (I'm klutzy).
Off topic, but I love the tuning on my 2nd neck for E13-9sus4, even though I can't do much with it - but wow, you argegiate this thing and people think you're a genius  low to high
E46 G#42 D34 F#30 A26 B22 C#17 E14 |
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Jim Wilmoth
From:
California, USA
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Posted 18 Dec 2012 9:01 pm This diagram is fantastic!
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This diagram is fantastic. It really really really makes me wish I could have afforded an 8 or 10 string lap steel.
| Eugene Cole wrote: |
I do not thing that C6 is any harder than G-tuning.
Unless you never venture far from music which is played with only I/IV/V chords; I do think that G-tuning with only 6 strings is harder than C6th with 8 strings.
With my current C6 tuning I have the I, IV, & vi chords right there in my open tuning.
This makes it pretty easy to navigate.
If I could go back and start over with learning non-pedal Steel I would want to start with an 8-string C6th tuning.
I had spent enough time at the time I purchased my first Dobro to know that I really wanted an 8-sring with a C6th tuning. I would have started out with this configuration if at the time I could have. however back then the cost of a used 8-string was substantially higher than a used 6-string. So I did what I could with the cashflow I had. |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 18 Dec 2012 9:42 pm
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It is very easy to switch between C6 and A6 tunings on the 8 string by retuning a few strings. I personally don't like the bottom 4 strings to be an octave below the top 4 strings- you get more harmonic diversity for chords and single note playing if you raise the 6th on the bottom to a b7th, or a root in the middle to a 9th.
There are two common versions of E13th tunings- one with a G# on top (the high lonesome sound) and one with an E on top. The high E13th tuning has the same intervals as the C6 tuning, but with the 7th string raised a half-step from the 6th to the b7th. The lower E13th tuning has (hi-lo) E-C#-B-G#-E-D-(G#/B)-(E/G#). Leon McAuliffe tuned it without the 5th in the lower octave.
Steve Ahola
_________________
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Recordings on electric guitar:
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