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Topic: Slide on a rare instrument (Cumbus) |
James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 3 Dec 2012 3:27 pm |
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I recorded a "live in the studio" album with a Mexican-American balladeer, back in January. Well, that CD has finally been published. We recorded 10 songs and only kept 8. To my surprise, Joaquin decided to keep a song we kinda threw together at the last minute. He wanted something different, so I tried playing the cumbus across my lap with a Shubb SP2. I worked out some loose solo ideas and just noodled around during the verse, following the chords as best I could. It's not great, but I really like the character of the instrument when playing with a bar. It's a Turkish Cumbus, which is a relative of the oud, but is often mistaken for a banjo. It has 12 strings, tuned in unison. I have it tuned DADGAD which is low tension for this particular instrument. It means I had to work hard to avoid hitting the frets.
LISTEN to "Dejame Ser Tu Cuerpo". The solo fall somewhere in the middle. If you want to hear how it sounds in "my" normal context, listen to the intro of "Ella". |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 4 Dec 2012 8:57 am
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James...
Why didn't you use the fretless version?
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 4 Dec 2012 9:11 am
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| Michael Lee Allen wrote: |
James...
Why didn't you use the fretless version?
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Michael, I actually have a fretless cumbus, as well, but didn't have it in the studio. If I knew I'd be playing across my lap, I'd have brought it. I happened to have a spare Shubb in my bag'o'strings and cords.
The cool thing about this instrument is that you can adjust the neck angle/action by simply turning a wingnut that secures the neck to the bowl on a fulcrum. It throws the whole instrument out of tune, but I should have just done that to get the strings off the frets a bit more. I'm really not sure why I didn't. My memory is that I just didn't take this song seriously. It was a last minute addition that was thrown in because we had some extra studio time to fill. In my opinion, the song needs more variation and goes on a bit too long.
I like the nasty unpolished character of the cumbus. Why aren't doubled unison strings more popular (or used at all?) on resonators and steels? |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 4 Dec 2012 12:30 pm
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I had a fretted Cumbus-Guitar (fretted) for a while. The factory made a mistake and sent it to me with a Cumbus-oud (fretless) when I had ordered two Cumbus-Oud models. Too expensive to return it so I opted to hang onto it and ordered another pair of fretless ones. I never cared for the fretted version as the frets were rough and not accurate in the higher positions and stringing it as a six to use in Algerian Chaabi in place of the usual six-string "guitar banjo" didn't work either, the scale was shorter, and it was too loud. So I sold it preferring the regular guitar-banjo type instrument everybody else uses. Mine are both in DADFAD open D/"Ousak" and if you play some Bukka White or Son House stuff on them they sound like a pair of steel body Nationals. "Nasty and unpolished" is a great description. Not to mention real loud.
MLA |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 4 Dec 2012 12:56 pm
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| Yeah, mine originally had a formica fretboard with poorly placed frets. I had a local luthier add a 1/4" ebony fretboard and correctly placed medium jumbo frets. It plays great now. Super loud and tons of sympathetic string ringing, built-in reverb. I prefer it to the fretless version. I'm able to get clearer notes and better sustain on the fretted neck. |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 4 Dec 2012 1:54 pm
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I traded my third fretless Cumbus to a friend who wanted it as a slide instrument. Later i got him a body and other parts without a neck and he had a longer scale twelve string fretted neck made for unison strings with two rods in it for stability. The guy who made the neck built me an eight string double-course unison tuned lap steel many years ago. In the pre-digital tuner age I had to tune it with a tube Peterson Strobe Tuner. I gave it back to him a few years later as I hardly ever used it and he still has it hanging on the wall in his workshop. Your Cumbus is newer than mine as the Formica fretboard ones haven't been brought into the USA for very long. I didn't even like the fretless Formica ones I tried out. They looked cheap and didn't feel right.
MLA |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 12 Dec 2012 11:23 am
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http://joaquinlopez.bandcamp.com/track/dejame-ser-tu-cuerpo
The link you posted didn't work for me, so I copied the above from your quote. I couldn't get it to play, only to offer to sell me a copy.
I too have a fretless Cumbus. But don't tell Bobby Lee that it's a variation of the banjo.  |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 12 Dec 2012 11:28 am
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When I was in the Cumbus shop in Turkey, I was told it is NOT a variation of the banjo, but a variation of the oud....and that any similarities are coincidence.
I'm not sure why the link doesn't work for you. I just checked it again and it's fine for me. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 12 Dec 2012 11:40 am
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Nice tracks, James.
I almost bought a fretless cumbus about 20 years ago at Music Inn in NYC which, if you haven't been, is one of the coolest little music stores you'll ever enter.
Instead, I opted for an old Hawaiian teachers student Weissenborn style guitar (piece of junk). It serves as a wall hanging in my studio.
Smokey Hormel used one with Tom Waits on this tune: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj8dnT1fvDg
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Alex Cattaneo
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 12 Dec 2012 12:53 pm
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I have one of those too, I whip it out occasionally for the odd soundtrack session. The Cûmbüs was invented somewhat recently by a Turkish man known as Zeynel Abidin Bey. His goal was to create an instrument that would be loud enough to be heard in concert rooms and that would replace the oud. It never did catch fire with the classical oud players, especially with the advent of loudspeakers and microphones, but the gipsys took it up as it was a perfect for them, cheap and solid and LOUD! I spent 3 weeks in Istanbul and the only time I saw one was in a Gipsy band. The guy who played it was phenomenal. You can hear this type of music on albums by the clarinet virtuoso Selim Sesler.
The instrument got its name from Ataturk himself; the great political leader named it cümbüs which means "joy" or "fun" or something along those lines. Although it's like a weird cross between a oud, a 12-string guitar and a banjo, it bears no relation to the latter whatsoever.
They are very cheaply made, and therefore really inexpensive. In Istanbul, they go for about 200$ maybe less, I can't remember. On mine, I had the nut and the bridge replaced and installed a K&K twin banjo pickup. |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 12 Dec 2012 1:52 pm
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Right on. I bought mine for $100. After having the neck rebuilt and replacing the original pressboard bridge with a custom rosewood version, it's a $400 instrument.
I also have a fretless version with a copper body. I've never seen another one like it, despite scouring the web. And, recently, I've learned that I will be relocating to London in 2013. The cumbus has become my instrument of choice so I started looking for a hardcase which are either handmade or they don't exist. I started gathering quotes for form fitted cases and they where anywhere from $500 to $1500. The guy who made my steel guitar case made a much better offer, but it wasn't form fitted, being rectangular. I just want something I can gate check when boarding a plane, instead of checking it as luggage and having it thrown around.
Then, I found this THIS wooden cumbus with hardcase for $600 and jumped on it. It's made by a famous oud luthier and appears to be of much higher quality than the standard cumbus. It should arrive in early January. I'm not sure which is the bonus, the case or the instrument.
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 12 Dec 2012 5:56 pm
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| James Mayer wrote: |
When I was in the Cumbus shop in Turkey, I was told it is NOT a variation of the banjo, but a variation of the oud....and that any similarities are coincidence.
I'm not sure why the link doesn't work for you. I just checked it again and it's fine for me. |
I tried the link again several times. The only way you can download or listen to the music is to buy it.
It's all a matter of how you look at it. The banjo is often quoted as being one of the few indigenous American instruments, but in fact the banjo originated in Aftica as the banjar, and there have always been string instruments in the Middle East and North Africa using membranes as a sounding device, rather than wood. The cumbus and the banjo are both derived from the same source, the cumbus having taken on the 6-double-course configuration of the oud. But they also sell cumbuses with 6 strings, and short ones the size of a banjele.
I have two ouds, which I keep to the same tuning as my lutes and citterns. It's easy to see why traditional oud players don't like the cumbus. The oud has a sweet tone, especially if you play the gut-stringed version, whereas the cumbus is rather harsh and loud.
Notice that these cumbuses have Remo banjo skins. There's obviously a crossover. |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 13 Dec 2012 8:20 am
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James...
Is your new "wooden Cumbus" one of the new ones made by Saadettin and Bahadir Sandi in Ankara? Someone I know played one in Istanbul and loved it. The only reason he didn't bring it back was he had already overspent and had too much stuff coming back with him but he's getting one on his next trip. He said it had less volume and sustain but had a much deeper and warmer sound. Makes me think of a widely circulated photo of the the master Udi Agapios Tomboulis in the 1930's. He had a hybrid instrument designed and built with a wood body and long Cumbus-like neck and a less severe pegbox angle. It has Dobro-like sound ports too. He's pictured here with the Queen Of Rembetiko, Rosa Eskenazi, but he recorded on oud and this custom instrument with almost every Smyrnaic and Rembetiko singer over many years. This picture was supposed to have been taken in 1932.
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 13 Dec 2012 8:29 am
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Alan, you make good points and I wasn't disagreeing. I was just telling you what they told me in Istanbul, which was surely more prideful than factual, historically speaking. Sorry about the technical issues. If you are interested in listening to the CD, I can get you a free download code. Just PM or email me and I'll get it to you.
Michael, yes, it's a Sandi. There's another one on eBay as I write this. HERE, in case your friend wants a second chance to get one.
Also, that photo you posted looks like an Ahenk. If you google that word you'll see what I mean. A wood face with the bridge resting on skin. Interesting. |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 13 Dec 2012 8:35 am
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Alan Brookes...
Read what Alex and James have posted. The original idea for the Cumbus body actually came from a cooking pot and the original bridges looked nothing like the banjo-type bridges used today. The instrument was granted a Turkish patent. The current banjo heads and bridges are just evolution and manufacturing shortcuts. I even have a Turkish-made darbuka that came from the factory with a Remo head. No big deal.
And there's a whole family of Cumbus-bodied instruments. There's a smaller version that comes with a "ukulele" neck, a mandolin neck, or a short-scale saz neck. Then the larger body can be bought with the frettless "oud" neck, the fretted "guitar" neck, several longer scales and string configurations of saz neck, and the Yayli Tanbur ultra-long neck which can be plucked or bowed and is over four feet long.
James...
I've never seen or heard of a copper body. I have seen and even owned a few instruments that were painted either black or white, with and without "glitter", and they were very well done. I don't know if this was a factory thing or aftermarket.
Your links work just fine. The sparse guitar and Cumbus backing a single Spanish vocal reminds me of several Sephardic projects I did with Ladino singers. A guitar or two and darbuka with either oud or saz to add color.
Let me know what this new instruments sounds and feels like, it's really interesting.
MLA |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 13 Dec 2012 9:23 am
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I read some references to a copper cumbus on a forum and started searching for one. I could never find one online until one day, one popped up on eBay that was black with what looked like copper etchings. It was cheap, so I jumped on it. When I received it, I was initially disappointed because the top of the bowl, where the little sound holes are, was obviously aluminum. But, when I looked inside of it I found the rest of the bowl is copper. There are even some blueish patina spots.
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 13 Dec 2012 10:03 am
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| Michael Lee Allen wrote: |
| ...The original idea for the Cumbus body actually came from a cooking pot and the original bridges looked nothing like the banjo-type bridges used today.... |
Before the banjo became today's classic instruments they were mostly home-made, and a variety of different domestic objects were used for the back, including basins, cooking pots, tamborines, wooden boxes, etc.
Here's an example of a banjo made with a cooking pot.
Actually, there's quite a history of banjo-making in my hometown of Birmingham, England. The most famous are the Windsor banjos made in Windsor Street. Banjos in England originated from instruments brought in from the Middle East during the middle ages, and tended to vary from the American banjos in that they had a resonator/bacx which surrounded the tone ring, rather than stood behind it, and they usually had six or seven strings. To distinguish them from the American banjos they've become known as the Zither Banjo in recent years, although they have nothing in common with the Zither.
Here's a Windsor Banjo that I restored a few years ago. Notice the arrangement of the pot inside the resonator, and the seven strings ...six plus a drone.
I don't mean to divert the topic, but I thought you might be interested.
http://bluegrassbanjo.org/banhist.html |
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Mike Anderson
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 14 Dec 2012 10:35 am
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Alan, the music player uses the Flash plugin I think. If your browser doesn't have it, or it needs updating, just go to http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/
Don't forget to un-tick the McAfee Security Scan Plus box first!  |
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Alex Cattaneo
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 14 Dec 2012 10:45 am
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Guys, I uploaded three tracks featuring the cümbüs. This is part of the soundtrack for a CBC documentary called Eat, Cook, Love. This section of the program featured Morrocco, so I used the Cümbüs to give it that Middle-eastern flavor.
https://soundcloud.com/acattaneo/sets/eat-cook-love
Check out tracks 4-5 and 6 of this playlist (Maroc, Vendredi, Pauvre).
James, please keep us posted concerning this upscale wooden cumbus. Looks very cool! |
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 14 Dec 2012 3:10 pm
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Moved to Music from Steel Without Pedals.
_________________
Brad’s Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 17 Dec 2012 4:00 pm
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Well, the Sandi cumbus arrived. It was packed in a wooden box, and then the instrument case. The box had a large crack on it from an obvious impact, but the instrument case looks fine. But the neck is completely jacked.
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 22 Dec 2012 10:59 am
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| If that crack has been properly glued it should cause no trouble. Sanding and refinishing the neck would make the crack virtually invisible. I've fixed a lot worse cracks than that. |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 23 Dec 2012 3:37 pm
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I contacted the luthier and he simply told me to remove the neck and send it to him so he can build another one to the same specs. He paid return postage. Good guy. Now, I'll have to wait at least 6 weeks to be able to play this instrument, however. In fact, I'm officially starting work in London on March 1st, so I'll probably not have any real time to enjoy this instrument before leaving in mid-February.  |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 23 Dec 2012 5:46 pm
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That's a good offer. It's a simple job. A shame that the cost will mostly go to the shipping company.
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 25 Dec 2012 1:02 pm
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