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Topic: Tube Reverb Unit |
John Dowden
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2012 3:28 pm |
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So I'm interested in taking the plunge and investing in a true tube reverb unit. I've read all over the place on various units and their pros and cons. I'm going to be using this unit primarily for gigs where I will be playing directly into the PA as opposed to through my amp.
1. I've tried a fender reissue unit and they're readily available used for around 400. Does anyone on here use this unit and what do you think are the benefits and drawbacks to it?
2. I've done a good deal of reading on Ken Fox's unit and the Premier 90 reverb unit he based most of his design off of. How does his unit compare to the Fender unit? I'd also be interested to know if its worth it to buy an old Premier 90 unit and restore it to working health.
3. Are there any other small boutique makers out there I should know about that I haven't run across in my search? |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 10 Dec 2012 4:08 pm
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There's also the mojo-verb made by Mojotone
And Dr Z makes one but his does not use a full 17" tank
_________________
Milkmansound.com |
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Brett Lanier
From:
Hermitage, TN
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Posted 10 Dec 2012 4:21 pm
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| I have a Premier 90. Best sounding (to me) spring reverb I've heard but still a little noisy for most gigs - even though my tech got it to be 80% quieter than it was. |
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Rich Hlaves
From:
Wildomar, California, USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2012 4:23 pm
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I own a Fender re-issue and a Fox unit. I enjoy them both but for different reasons.
The Fender unit goes from mild to wild and everything in between where the Fox reverb suits itself very well to steel guitar be it pedal or lap. The Fender unit does the surf thing that I play occasionally so it is my all around preference.
I have a frend with a Premier unit and don't really like it. It is noisey and seems to lack "body" in the tone.
Ken did considerable work to get the Priemer circuit updated to work well with steel and the tube warmth is a pleasure to add to my sound. Although a spring reverb the response is very "plate" like with a matching pot to get the best out of your pickup. For steel only this is my fave hands down.
All that being said IMO the Fender would be the best choice if I was using the unit for six string and steel. The Fox unit best with steel.
The vintage Premier unit is cool if you want a vintage effect as a collector piece but no of much use with out some work.
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On man....let the smoke out of another one. |
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John Dowden
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2012 4:49 pm
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| Tim, have you tried either the Mojo Verb or Dr. Z units? If so, how do you compare them to the Fender unit? |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 10 Dec 2012 5:11 pm
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I think the mojo is a direct clone
the Dr Z is kind of anemic with that tiny reverb tank, but its pretty good still
Mojotone used to sell a kit for this product - and I bet Weber still does
However, its kind of not the most exciting kit build so I think it fizzled out.
The Fender circuit is very simple - its basically a Champ but the 6V6 drives the reverb tank instead of a speaker and it mixes it back in the dry signal. The whole thing operates at guitar level so you can stick it in front of an amp.
In general Reissue Fender quality is pretty low - I'd probably go for Z above that, because at least its still hand wired. Or invest in an amp with reverb built in (shameless plug) my Milkman has the Fender 3 knob reverb circuit built in 
_________________
Milkmansound.com |
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Ken Fox
From:
Nashville GA USA
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Posted 11 Dec 2012 5:57 am
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The Mojotone is actually a reverb amp with a speaker. It takes the dry signal from your speaker output and runs that into the stand-alone reverb amp. An old concept that Gibson sold called the GA-1RT, it offered reverb and tremolo on the little outboard combo amp. Later there were some combo Epihone amps (and probably Gibson amps as well) that had a separate amp and 6" speaker for the reverb signal.
The Fender reverb units (old or new) have a distinct surf type tone for sure. I worked on two this year (old 1960's units) and could not get a reverb i cared for out of them. I listened to Fender demos on YouTube of the reissue and discovered that same tone. They do not sound at all like the amp reverb of a typical Fender amp.
The old Premier 90 was prone to internal grounding issues that resulted in a lot of hum on the signal. Also headroom was bad, easily overdriven. Yet a cool reverb sound. Using the same Accutronics tanks as a Fender I wondered why they sounded so different. I sent the schematic to Jim Evans and his 1 page reply on the circuit workings explained much to me. The system used a recirculating reverb signal that was similar to the old Fischer Space Expander. Unlike a Fender where the dry and wet are just mixed this feeds back part of the tanks output back to its input for a more hall like decay.
As I am closing the repair shop and no longer planning to build again there will likely be no more of these units. I have one left in stock. I got an offer from Tone Guest Magazine to do an interview on the unit and have decided to turn them down.
On our reverb:
These stand-alone reverb units are based on the reverb circuit of the old Premier 90 tube reverb. We have made many improvements to the original circuit. This is just the best sounding reverb units I have ever heard. Much more like hall reverb, as it used a re-circulating reverb. Unlike others it feeds part of the reverb output back to the tank input for very natural decay. Our hand wired circuit boards are all made here in the shop!
Features:
*full wave rectified and filtered main and filament supplies
*input impedance variable with "tone" control knob (27K to 1 meg ohms)
*reverb signal to the dry mix adjusted via the Dwell knob
*dry signal adjustable from below to above unity gain for some extra drive!!
*footswitch input, 1/4" jack, footswitch supplied
*D2F cover with storage pouch
*detachable AC power cord, stores in zipper pouch
*Rough brown tolex or lacquered tweed finish
*MOD 3 spring, medium delay reverb tank
The unit has a gain structure of just below unity gain to just above unity gain via the mix control knob. There is a foot-switch panel mounted jack for a standard 1/4.
Tube compliment:
EH 12AU7, Gold Pins, signal input amplification and final output stage
JJ 12AT7, reverb driver
Sound clip with Tommy Butler using the reverb unit only as his preamp and reverb direct to the board (just used a direct box in between to convert to a low-z input for the board), no EQ added, no other effects added to the Show Pro. This was a rough mix, so the steel is louder than the final version.
http://foxvintageamps.com/linked/zzz%20together%20again%20fox%20tube%20reverb.mp3 |
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John Dowden
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 11 Dec 2012 11:09 pm
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| Does the Premier 90 have a power tube in it? |
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Ken Fox
From:
Nashville GA USA
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J Fletcher
From:
London,Ont,Canada
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Posted 12 Dec 2012 11:02 am
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| Personally, I like the built in reverb, like a Twin Reverb, better than the Fender stand alone. Just sounds better to me. Maybe because it is after the EQ? I don't know, sounds good...Jerry |
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Tim Marcus
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 12 Dec 2012 4:45 pm
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probably because the spring is driven by a coupled 12AT7 instead of a 6V6 in a Twin
there are lots of ways to tackle tube driven spring reverb - my little 5W Milkman model does it all with 1 tube (one side drives the spring, the other recovers) and there is still *plenty* of verb to go around. I had to dial the circuit back from what it could be to make it musical and useful.
I have been thinking about making a small tube reverb unit/preamp but for what it is it would be very expensive. The thing about tubes is that there is not much that you can do with them that is inexpensive. Pedals do a great job for the money - and if you are willing to spend a lot you are better off with a tube amp with reverb. That is more space efficient and useful to me than a standalone box (or a pedal for that matter)
_________________
Milkmansound.com |
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Bill L. Wilson
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 12 Dec 2012 11:48 pm Fender Reverb
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| I play steel in the reverb channel, and use a Boss'63Fender reverb pedal, in the normal channel for guitar, in my Fender Twin. I think the pedal sounds just like spring reverb. It's close enough for me. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 13 Dec 2012 7:54 am
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If you really want to get serious about a reverb, you need to take a long look at the discontinued Tube Works reverb. This rack mounted unit contains 12 springs that can either be split into two channels or combined for a reverb effect like no other.
You have to have pretty deep pockets if you run across one as I've been noticing that the asking price is running between $700 and $800! 
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Rick Abbott
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2012 5:22 pm
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Kendrick Amps made one a few years back (maybe still does). They are found for reasonable prices usually. Less than an old Fender and way better than the new ones, JMO.
_________________
RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Sehy #112
1975 Peavey Pacer 1963 Gibson Falcon |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 16 Dec 2012 3:14 pm
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I have a Ken Fox Reverb unit and I like the reverb as it has a high fi quality as it uses a three spring medium tail reverb. I asked Ken about a Fender style reverb 2 spring reverb tank and he was kind enough to give me the Fender style model 2 spring # to swap out of the unit. Just got the new tank in and plan to get to it after the holidays.
Lenny |
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