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Topic: Don Helms/Hank Williams Gibson Console grande question |
basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 9 Dec 2012 4:16 am |
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I have a question with regard to a Gibson Console Grande.
This guitar is in the UK and APPARENTLY was played by Don Helms. There is a picture of Don and the (Deceased) UK owner together with the guitar. Apparently the (Anonymous)UK owner purchased the guitar from Don Helms, and it's supposed by the (Anonymous) UK owner's family that it was his stage guitar that he used when with Hank Williams.
Where can details be found as to the guitars used by Don in that era ? and is the whereabouts of these guitars known ?
My feeling is that it was probably bought from Gibson FOR the UK player/collector and presented to him by Don, or, it may have been a practise/home guitar of Don's.
I'm somewhat sceptical about the claims as they say the guitar is "Pristine" and that does NOT sound like the description of a "Road Guitar"..
Any relevant info will be most welcome..
_________________
Steelies do it without fretting
CLICK THIS to view my tone bars and buy——> |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Scott Thomas
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Posted 9 Dec 2012 11:33 am
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This may help, Baz. It's a bit of Helms playing what he seems to be saying is the original Console Grande. It was borrowed back by him from a museum he had given it to. Listen to his story, and note some of the close ups of the guitar at 1:30. The unique way the "Console Grande" label has been torn off would be like a fingerprint you could compare. At 4:50 there is a close up of finish chips on the front.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPL2N0yEHW0 |
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Scott Thomas
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 10 Dec 2012 3:18 am
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Don was on a Steel Guitar Hall of Fame fundraising show we had in Lake Panasoffkee Florida in Feb 2004. Don commented that the Gibson he was using he used with Hank Williams.
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2012 11:47 am
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| Did Hank do a tour in England? Perhaps rather that paying for shipping it home, Don sold it instead? |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 11 Dec 2012 10:54 am
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| John Billings wrote: |
| Did Hank do a tour in England? Perhaps rather that paying for shipping it home, Don sold it instead? |
If he was concerned with shipping costs- with Hank or afterwards- I think that it is more likely that he left his CG at home and played one that he borrowed in the UK, which might be what is for sale. Just a guess.
Steve Ahola
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 11 Dec 2012 1:05 pm
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deleted
Last edited by Michael Lee Allen on 21 May 2018 2:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 11 Dec 2012 4:55 pm
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Thanks everyone for the invaluable info.
It would appear that the present owners are living in a different world to us, probably a dream world where everything is "Special and Rare"...
Michael that photo and short article intrigues me, what is the crux of it pray-tell ?
Last edited by basilh on 11 Dec 2012 5:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Todd Brown
From:
W. Columbia , South Carolina
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Posted 11 Dec 2012 4:58 pm
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Hank was on a USO tour in Germany with Don around 1950 or '51 for a week or so. There is no history of him(them) playing or ever being in the UK. This USO tour was the only time Hank ever traveled outside the US.
If what your being told is true, it's most likely this CG was bought well past Don's days of playing with Hank. |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 11 Dec 2012 5:11 pm
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deleted
Last edited by Michael Lee Allen on 21 May 2018 2:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 11 Dec 2012 5:46 pm
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| Thanks for the memory Michael. Yes EMI TWO-177, and the Tau Moe comment. Id love to get a scan of that article just for my scrapbook, is it possible Please ? |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 12 Dec 2012 10:06 am
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deleted
Last edited by Michael Lee Allen on 21 May 2018 2:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 12 Dec 2012 11:14 am
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Why not just scan it as a .jpg file and post it on the Forum so that we can all see it?  |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 13 Dec 2012 2:21 am
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I was talking to a friend last evening that was also at that HOF fundraising show. He said he talked to Don and he told him his original steel was sold to a collector in Japan.
The friend, from what Don told him, apparently had three steels during the Hank Williams days. The one in the picture is the last one. |
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Chris Scruggs
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 15 Dec 2012 2:40 pm
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| Don kept the CG he used with Hank until his death. I know, I worked with him regularly in his last year and it was on the stage at the Texas Troubadour right next to me at Don's tribute show the month after his passing. He purchased the guitar in 1950. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 15 Dec 2012 4:45 pm
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Don, has told several stories on his guitars. I don't think anyone knows for sure.
Sort of like ask Don what gauge strings he used or how he tuned his guitar. I remember one day at Bobbe Seymour's when the store was in Goodlettesville, I was there with a friend that was picking up a new Emmons Legrande II. Don came in looking for a tuning key for his guitar as one had broken. My friend asked him about his tuning and what he told him is not what is commonly published as the Don Helms tuning. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 15 Dec 2012 5:20 pm
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| Jack Stoner wrote: |
| ...My friend asked him about his tuning and what he told him is not what is commonly published as the Don Helms tuning. |
This was written in Don's own hand...
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 16 Dec 2012 3:03 am
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| Alan, I'm not looking for his tuning. I've seen that before. Just stating what he told a friend in Bobbe Seymour's store. |
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Don Sulesky
From:
Citrus County, FL, Orig. from MA & NH
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Posted 16 Dec 2012 7:37 am
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I was that friend with Jack.
I was picking up my new LeGrande II in late 1999 and Don came in the store.
He had his original Gibson console and was going to have Bobbe repair it. I then had a picture of me and Don taken.
Don
_________________
Private one on one lessons available
Member: FSGC, PSGA, TSGA
Co-founder: Florida Steel Guitar Club
"Steel guitar is like playing chess in the dark with three players". Jeff Newman quote from 1997 seminar |
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Alan Cook
From:
Kent,England
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Posted 17 Dec 2012 12:35 pm Console Grande
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OK Here is the pic, the writing on the back of the pick and the actual guitar serial number 0265 not sure if that makes it a 1950 or a 1955!
I don't think for a minute that it's the guitar that was used on the Hank Williams recordings or gigs but it is a lovely original guitar that is in great condition, that why i have just bought it.
The only thing I am not happy with is the leg fitting arrangement but I am sure I can sort that out. Just changed the strings and tried it out and it plays and sounds great.
Alan
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Chris Scruggs
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2012 6:13 pm
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Nice looking Gibson! I bet it nails that Helms sound, too!
However, notice "Old Red", the actual Don Helms guitar (in the picture with Mr. Helms) has the flat-pole oval shaped P-90s consistant with it being a late forties guitar, vs. the '50s styled four-screw rectangular shaped P-90s with adjustable pole pieces as seen in the picture of the guitar just purchased. Pretty obvious difference from one pic to another.
Also, Don's CG was a three leg model (notice in early pics where he is playing it standing that it has three legs. When he started playing again in recent years he had Bobbe Seymour put new legs and sockets in the guitar. It stayed with a three leg setup).
He loved the Gibson. He played it until the very end of the fifties and used it on such late fifties classics as Stonewall Jackson's "Life To Go", Patsy Cline's original recording of "Walking After Midnight" and the Louvin Brother's "Cash On The Barrelhead". The only reason he switched to pedals was to keep his gig with the Wilburn Brothers. They wanted him to play pedals and so he went with Sho-Bud in (I believe) 1959 or 1960 to keep his job.
Jack Stoner,
Don told many stories, but the Gibson IS the same one he used with Hank Williams. PERIOD. I have never heard anybody dispute this until this thread.
To argue that he said it was when it wasn't is to call Don a liar and I am very bothered by that insinuation.
Perhaps the reason he gave your friend a tuning non consistant with the classic Helms E6 was because he changed the lowest two strings from D and B which he used in the fifties to C# and A. This was to give the sound of the low A and F strings on a modern pedal C6 tuning. the natural seven voicing, but transposed up for E6 instead of C6.
He did play another steel early on with Hank. On the earliest records he played a walnut Fender Dual Eight with boxcar pickups. This is the guitar that you hear on "Why Don't you Love Me" and Long Gone Lonesome Blues" as well as some Ernest Tubb reords form 1950. He traded it even with a fan after a show for the Gibson that same year. He would have played another guitar in the mid forties with Hank (before Fender even existed) so that would account for him playing three guitars with Hank. Perhaps that is what he meant.
He did own different Console Grande's through out more recent years (in case he had to fly somewhere and didn't want to check the one with all the history) but the three legged one with the oval shaped flat pole P-90s is the guitar used on Hey Good Lookin', Your Cheating Heart, Cold Cold Heart, I Can't Help It, etc. The Hank Williams museum in Montgomery, AL has a later fifties Gibson owned by Don (with rectangular P-90s and four legs) and I recall him saying he was OFFERED $350,000 for the Console Grande by a Japanese collector but he always kept the original.
BOTTOM LINE. Don Helms kept his original Gibson Console Grande until the day he died. He said it was the original. He was a friend, he told me as much regarding the guitar and THAT IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME.
-Chris Scruggs |
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Alan Cook
From:
Kent,England
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Posted 17 Dec 2012 11:41 pm
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Thanks Chris great info and history.
I think the pic was taken and the widow of the guy who owned my guitar just included it in the case.
I did notice the differences you pointed out and as I said I don't think for a minute that its Dons old red.
I paid a very reasonable price for it here in the UK and love the sound. I can see why Don had the leg sockets done the originals are a very poor design.
I would like to age the guitar if anyone can advise there is a small metal plate on the end of the guitar with the number 0265 on it?
I was also told that Elvis was sick on the case and you can just make out the stain Ha Ha.
Alan |
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Chris Scruggs
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 18 Dec 2012 12:02 am
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You could unscrew the control panel and date the pot codes. As a rule of thumb, whenever the pot codes are from will give you a year or two period to go with. For instance, I have an ES-125 guitar with 1952 pot codes, meaning the guitar is most likely a '52 or '53 depending on how soon the pots made it into the guitar after they were stamped. I hope that helps! Once again, that's s very pretty Console Grande you have there!
Chris |
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Alan Cook
From:
Kent,England
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