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Topic: Got a question for the more astute............... |
Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 30 Nov 2012 4:41 pm |
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When one gets really old........
and collects a bunch of olde junk guitars and records......
and has little to do but watch the laquer color on an old guitar fade in the dwindling sunlight.......
and listen to cabinet drop........
and has more time on his hands than anything else....
the mind starts playing tricks on one's sensibility.
Just got to wondering what you folks think about the values of various famous musical instruments. For example: What do you suppose the value of Speedy Wests' BIGSBY on display in Nashvilles' Country Music Hall of Fame; Curley Chalkers guitar from the days Law Vegas and Hee-Haw; Jerry Byrd's famous dbl neck SHO-BUD; Jaoquin Murphy's BIGSBY steel, etc. might bring in today's collector's market?
I'd be interested in your points of view from where-ever you might be........ |
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Bill L. Wilson
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 30 Nov 2012 11:23 pm
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| The old steel guitars on display, owned and played by Speedy West, Jerry Byrd, Curly Chalker, are iconic instruments, that are not worth as much as say, an old Telecaster, or Martin. That being said, they are worth considerably more than an old Bigsby you would find at a guitar show, or someones closet. It's funny how steel guitars have evolved into this mechanism, using both hands, both feet, and both knees, but guitars have gone back to the beginning. Old pickups, old finishes, and old amps, but my Emmons has to be shiny black and chrome, with a clean sounding amp. |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 1 Dec 2012 12:23 am
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| In the mainstream world, nobody has heard of Jerry Byrd, Curly Chalker, Speedy West etc, and the value of their instruments reflects this non-awareness. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 1 Dec 2012 6:12 am
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Outside of "condition", collectibility is based largely on two factors, "demand" and "availability". Some steel guitar-related items have the requisite low availability and good condition to make them seemingly desirable, but the demand is also very low, hence the prices are also pretty low. This is why steel stuff is different than straight guitar stuff as far as used value goes.
Unless steel guitar maintains some mainstream popularity, values will likely go down even more as the older fans and players of the instrument die off.  |
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Joerg Hennig
From:
Bavaria, Germany
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Posted 1 Dec 2012 9:28 am
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| The only good thing about this is, it makes it actually possible for someone who does not have a high income to own a fine vintage instrument. I purchased my '55 Stringmaster for the equivalent of circa 1900 dollars, but if I were looking, for instance, for a Telecaster of the same era, it would cost probably at least ten times that much which puts it out of reach for me. |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 3 Dec 2012 3:14 pm
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The Speedy West and the Joaquin Murphey values are hard to judge. Three years ago I turned down an offer for the Speedy West Bigsby. I could have purchased the guitar for $30,000. The seller, who will remain nameless, because now we know it was not really his guitar to sell, offered to drive it to me for the transaction. I turned down the deal because the guitar has a history of being stolen, perhaps more than once, and that is not the kind of item I want to be part of.
The Joaquin Murphey triple neck is a tough one to price because we know it did not look the way it does today until a few years ago. That plaque is not real, the acorn knob was added. The Bigsby looked like this for fifty years from the time Marv Erickson bought a refurbished Bigsby from the factory. A number of people knew the history of the guitar when Marv had it, and it seemed to be about a $15,000 Bigsby then.
I like Chas Smith's Joaquin Murphey lap better. There is still a reverse lap Bigsby that was made for Murphey that I cannot account for, but surely someone else can. I do not mean the reverse single neck with legs and pedals -- that is here in Southern California. This other reverse was a lap steel.
Don Davis had a triple neck Bigsby lap steel with no fretboards. How about that?
I sold Vance Terry, on the other hand, for $20,002 in 2007 (or around there). I was trying to get the Tiny Moore and Vance Terry Bigsbys together, but when I realized I could not, I let Vance go to another collector.
Here is what the triple Joaquin Murphey looked like for fifty years.
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 3 Dec 2012 4:18 pm
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The value of the instruments will vary according to when they're being sold, who knows about the sale, and who has the funds to buy them.
As has been said, only country musicians will have heard of Jerry Byrd, Sol Ho'opi'i, Buddy Emmons, etc. If one of Jerry's instruments were to come up for sale, a lot of people on the Forum would want to buy it, but not many would have the funds needed. But all it takes is a wealthy person with the desire, and the price goes way up.
The kind of auction that sellers love is where two or three bidders just have to have what's on sale and are prepared to go through the roof. |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 3 Dec 2012 4:49 pm
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Alan, Bigsbys are a little different from other instruments. There are some people who buy the steels, for example, who have no interest in steel guitar music or any other steels. Bigsbys are appreciated by standard guitar players who cannot afford a Bigsby Standard guitar, or Crocker motorcycle fans, or one lady who appreciates them as furniture! Heck, Mel Tillis does not play steel.
But you are correct that there is a small market and the availability of Bigsbys is not well publicized. There are eleven, or maybe ten for sale right now. That number of Bigsbys on the market has less to do with the economy as the age and physical condition of some of the some of the owners/sellers. There are always several Bigsbys for sale, in good times or bad, the price steadily goes up, in good times and in bad, and the market is pretty lively with good examples selling swiftly and poor examples (or very heavy ones) taking longer to change hands. It is like the market for 25L15s. They are rare, pretty well unknown, and there are more people who will really buy one -- and not just talk about it -- than there are good examples available on the market. That keeps the market active and healthy.
Back to Ray's original question, it is my experience that Bigsby steels are not as influenced by celebrity ownership as Telecasters, or Bigsby Standard guitars. Condition, originality and rare features have a greater influence in market value. What really boosts the value of a Bigsby steel is if it is paired with the original owner's 25L15 -- meaning the same player's name on the front of both the Bigsby and one of the five dozen custom made Standel 25L15s. The opportunities to make that matchup today you can count on one hand, and some of the matches are from "no name" players such as Lee Buck or Mike Young.
Also, the value of the Bigsby goes up, in my experience, if it is for sale by the original owner. There are three Bigsbys for sale right now from original owners, but that is pretty rare. Ray's is the only quad still in possession of the original owner.
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
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Posted 4 Dec 2012 9:04 am
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For everyone but steel guitar players, the resale value of a steel-guitar is established by the usual reaction of: "What the hell is that?"
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"FROM THEN TIL' NOW" |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 4 Dec 2012 9:13 am
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The current issue of Fretboard Magazine has an interview by Jon Rauhouse with Bud & Geri Isaacs. In it, Geri says that Bud sold his "Slowly" Bigsby guitar to Jack Hamlett for something like $250 (do I remember that right??) and that Jack subsequently sold it for $85,000 (I know I remember that part right). FWIW...
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www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 4 Dec 2012 2:37 pm
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Jim
I know those are the price figures quoted in the article, and while I do not have the article in front of me, I think the article says Isaacs heard it sold for $85,000, not that it actually sold for that figure.
Bud Isaacs sold the Bigsby to Hamlin in 1957, so the $250 figure is not out of line. The $85,000 figure comes from a January 2007 appraisal by Bobbe Seymour -- not from an actual sale. You may take that appraisal for what it is worth.
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Peter Huggins
From:
Van Nuys, California, USA
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Posted 5 Dec 2012 3:21 pm
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There was a post a short while back about Coy Martin's Bigsby triple neck, a one owner guitar with paperwork. I couldn't find it, but this article just came up on the Bigsby Newsletter:
A crisp and rainy November morning was the scene for attendees of Christie's Fine Musical Instruments auction in New York City. Hitting the auction block were incredible pieces including a Guadagnini violin, vintage Stratocasters and Martins, and a 1951 Paul Bigsby triple neck steel guitar! Built for Coy Martin, who worked as staff steel guitarist for radio station KTA in Iowa, the instrument was truly one of a kind. This particular instrument was the first to feature a 10-string neck. Another unique feature of Martin's Bigsby steel was the addition of the built-in ashtray. As Paul was a skilled pattern maker, this requested add-on must have been just the type of personal touch and attention to detail he enjoyed being able to provide to his customers. Functionally, the instrument featured a triple neck layout of an 8, 10, 8 string pattern and had 4 foot pedals. As was standard for Paul Bigsby instruments, the body made using beautifully figured tiger maple. Included in the auction lot was the original bill of sale as well a letter from Bigsby to Martin which detailed the features of the instrument.
With hearts pumping and excitement in the auction hall, it's no surprise that the steel brought significantly more than estimated. While the estimate was $3,000-$4,000, the actual hammer price was $9,500. With the buyer's premium, the auction ended at a grand total of $11,875! The musical history set forth by Paul Bigsby continues today as one of his handmade instruments found a loving new home. Although we aren't sure who purchased the steel, we are hopeful it will soon be hitting a stage somewhere soon!
Learn more about Paul Bigsby, his guitars, and famous vibratos in The Story of Paul Bigsby: Father of the Modern Electric Solidbody Guitar
Seems like a bargain to me, especially considering the Bigsby Solidbody Spanish guitar that reached $220,000 at the Heritage auction at the Dallas Guitar Festival back in April. (More like $265,000 after premiums and taxes were added)
P.S. Chris Lucker's posts always fascinate me!
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A big THANKS to all my friends, here and everywhere ! |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 6 Dec 2012 9:20 am
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| When we get down to one of Paul Bigsby's used guitar strings or a broken pick maybe I'll be able to bid. |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 6 Dec 2012 10:00 am
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Well, if Bobbe says it's worth $85,000, and as his own site has said for decades:
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| Are you tired of carrying a heavy, weak, bad sounding, ugly, low-tech old guitar? |
Then I guess those new-fangled GFI's he's got must be worth, like, $87,000? Maybe I'll call him and see if he'll take $86,737.50, a pair of my old girlfriend's underpants and three popsicle sticks... I'm kinda short right now. |
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Douglas Schuch
From:
Valencia, Philippines
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 7 Dec 2012 10:09 am
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| If this is legitimate, then that guitar is worth a fortune. If I had the money I would snap it up. |
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Rick Collins
From:
Claremont , CA USA
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Posted 7 Dec 2012 10:57 am
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I would not give you $10 for every Bigsby that was produced, unless I could unload them immediately for a profit.
Bigsbys are way to massive; and modern instruments do the same job better with better tone.
There are better investments for appreciation.
Even modern D-10 pedal steel guitars need to be a bit more compact and lighter.
Some day someone will do it. Today, Williams comes closest. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 7 Dec 2012 5:48 pm
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| We're not just talking about Bigsby's. |
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Douglas Schuch
From:
Valencia, Philippines
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Posted 7 Dec 2012 7:22 pm
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Ray (or others), can you authenticate this as a Jerry Byrd personal guitar? Seems the front with Walnut and an inlaid pheasant would be pretty distinctive. Anyone remember seeing that, or anyone have pics of him with this instrument? She sure is pretty!
Edited: Having visited the Jerry Byrd Fan Club site, I see indeed he played such a Sho-Bud. He played with 7 strings on the front neck and 8 on the rear, and the Ebay instrument has that. The first Sho-Bud I see had black fretboards. The one Scotty has has white ones, but I assume that was a change in fretboards since it is JB's 60's vintage Sho-Bud.
The serial # seems pretty clear: JB2, but perhaps someone wanted a guitar "just like Jerry's"?
So, nothing conclusive, but certainly intriguing. But at that price you are buying more than just an old console guitar - you are hoping you are buying a bit of history.
Doug
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Bringing steel guitar to the bukid of Negros Oriental! |
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Barry Blackwood
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Douglas Schuch
From:
Valencia, Philippines
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Posted 7 Dec 2012 8:38 pm
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Indeed, Barry, we have been down this road - I discovered that thread just searching for images of Jerry playing guitars. The one difference is now that guitar is for sale, so we have a price, which was Ray's initial question. But, based on the thread you link, the seller seems less sure of provenance than he is now in his advertising. I wonder if he has come up with something more definitive?
It is a beautiful instrument.
Doug
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Bringing steel guitar to the bukid of Negros Oriental! |
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Adam Tober
From:
Boston MA
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 8 Dec 2012 4:42 pm
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I'll repeat a question I asked on another thread...
Would a Sho-Bud without pedals sound any different than a Sho-Bud with pedals, but keeping your feet off the pedals ? |
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