Why buy Ext. E9 over Universal

Gary Reed · Posted 25 Nov 2012 6:27 pm

Why do we buy 12 string extended E9's rather than the Universal. There really isn't that much difference in cost. Doesn't the Universal do all the EX E9 does and more?
Thanks

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

A very famous player once said that whenever you try to combine two tunings, you lose a little of each. If I played all jazz and pop, I might go for the universal. But for the stuff I played (country, classic rock, doo-wop, oldies, and rock-a-billy) the E-based tuning worked far better.

Gary Reed · Posted 25 Nov 2012 8:43 pm

Which one would you consider Gospel to fit in best with?

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

I have to agree with what Donny said. I have so many "extra" changes on both my E9 and C6 necks, that a uni would take me backwards.

An extended E9 doesn't give you the C6th sounds that a uni would have. If you are not after those sounds, then an ext E9 is more of what you want.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

I sorta disagree with the concept that a U12 (or C6 for that matter) is for jazz and and extended E9 is not.

Joaquin Murphey's tuning was very very close to an E9 and Tommy Morrel used an E13 that would be much more of an E9 than a C6 to my way of thinking. If you add a 6th or C# note to the middle of your extended E9 and think through your set up there is plenty of music to be had.
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Bob

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I played Extended E9th for 30 years. I like having E as the lowest string, and I like the 9th string D. I really had no use for a low B string (still don't). I was always able to find the so-called jazz chords on those rare occasions when I needed them.

The U-12 has a lot more changes to tune, and it's harder to play than Extended E9th because of that added complexity, in my opinion.
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Micky Byrne · From: United Kingdom (deceased)

I changed from an extended E9th to a universal in 1982...it's second nature to me now. I had parts made up to do all a basic D-10 had. A friend of mine in South Dakota had come up with a tuning to encompass E9th and C6th on one 12 string neck. There were no Jeff Newman tutors in those days so I went to the late Gordon Huntley's place here in U.K. to try to emulate what he had on his ZB D-10. All the changes on his standard D-10 with 8 pedals 4 knee levers were on my guitar. Gordon was a brilliant player who recorded with the likes of people like Olivia Newton John and was part of the band Mathew's Southern Comfort who recorded a hit record with a song called "Woodstock"...flower power days Very Happy

The "lesson" with Gordon lasted several hours including a roast beef dinner and red wine. Gordon had a tremendous sence of humour...he knew he was dying from Cancer, and arranged his own funeral. As the curtains closed on his coffin at the end of the ceremony, he'd aranged the song to be played "Smoke gets in your eyes" The tears in the Crematorium turned to giggles Laughing

Anyway back to this thread...I do ramble on sometimes. I just treat my universals as one "BIG" tuning. I don't "think" 9th or 6th. There's alot on there Smile

Micky Byrne U.K. www.micky-byrne.co.uk

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Ken Metcalf · From: San Antonio Texas USA

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

George Kimery · From: Limestone, TN, USA

I have had both Extended E-9 and Universal. The Extended E-9 is basically a single neck E-9 with two, lower strings added. A universal is a hybrid between an E-9th and C-6th neck, all built onto one neck.. If you are going to play gospel and traditional country, then I would recommend just a normal 10 string, single neck E-9. If you find an Extended E-9 at a good price, don't turn it down. If you don't like the extra two strings, you can just take them off and make a 10 string out of it. Also, if you are just beginning, the Universal tuning, or having a double neck with an E-9th and C-6th tuning, can be pretty challenging to learn. A single E-9th will have everything on it that you really need and will keep you busy for a lot of years. The pedal steel is a pretty complicated instrument to learn for most people. In my opinion,don't make things more difficult by getting a whole bag full of clubs that you don't need. Good luck.

David Stilley · From: Santa Cruz, California, USA

I'm pretty much a beginner at the pedals and I chose a U-12 because I felt that if I were going to learn U-12 I'd be better off than starting on a D-10 and switching down the road. I'm also physically a little compromised and lugging a D-10 around seemed like it would be too much for me. The Universal seemed like the most modern system for the steel and I might as well start off with a system that I'm going to stick with for the long run. I very much enjoy jazz and I'm just getting more into country roots music (I've always been a fan of western swing). I even considered learning on a S-10 C6 for a while. But I opted for the U-12 E9/B6 for the added versatility. I did have some experience with a student model S-10 before choosing the U-12, so I knew that I didn't want just an Extended E9 tuning.
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GFI Ultra U-12 7+5 E9/B6, Roland Cube 80XL, Telonics FP-100 Volume pedal with TMRS remote sensor (courtesy of Dave Beaty and Telonics)

Quentin Hickey · From: Nova Scotia, Canada

If I found that I wanted to play jazz 80 percent of the time or more than I would string up an S-10 guitar and add all of the right pulls to it. I have played a U-12 for about 6 months and had no problem getting my head around it, the reason I decdided to go to D-10's is because I missed the the string combinations and carious chords lost when going to a U-12. I like having the bottom 2 strings as a standard E9 and I like having the top 2 strings as a standard C6.

Quentin Hickey · From: Nova Scotia, Canada

But if I had to choose one or the other it would definably be a universal.

Roual Ranes · From: Atlanta, Texas, USA

If I could play like Maurice Anderson, I would have a copy of his Bb6 but I need a D10. I tried the Bb6 but it is not for me. I don't know enough.

Dave Hopping · From: Aurora, Colorado

After playing D-10s and S-10s for years,I went with a U-12,then added a whole-step raise on the 12th string-on my A pedal.Makes the whole thing a huge E9,but I can still get all the B6 changes I'll ever use.One thing I did find out is that B6,at least for me,is a whole lot easier to "see" on the fretboard than C6,and easier to integrate into material.I still am thinking two different tunings,but the boundary is starting to blur just a little.

Ken Metcalf · From: San Antonio Texas USA

This is what I found also

Quentin Hickey · From: Nova Scotia, Canada

Ken and Dave. I found that too, but I was surprised when I finally started digging in to learning positions on the C neck that it really isn't as bad as I though it was going to be.
You have to keep in mind as soon as you engage that D lever you are in B6th mode, the rest is downhill...or uphill depending how you look at it. Wink

David Stilley · From: Santa Cruz, California, USA

Speaking as someone who played 6-string for years before starting on steel the B6 is easier to know right off the root positions on the fretboard. In E9 your open position is E and the 5th fret is A, same as 6 string. In B6 your 5th fret is E and so it's easier for me to instantly know the positions in E9/B6 as compared to an E9/C6 set-up. I hope that makes sense to you all like it does to me. You can be playing in E9 on the 5th fret (Root A) and go to B6 on the same fret and you have the V chord (Root E) right there. It makes integrating the two tunings into one easy for me. It really does start to look like one BIG tuning.
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GFI Ultra U-12 7+5 E9/B6, Roland Cube 80XL, Telonics FP-100 Volume pedal with TMRS remote sensor (courtesy of Dave Beaty and Telonics)

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